Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the legal learning podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the legal learning center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school. If you’d like to ensure you are remembering everything that goes in to applying to law school, visit legal learning center.com for a free law school application checklist. Today’s guest is Steve Schwartz of Elsa unplugged. He’s going to share with us what the Elsa changes mean for you, whether more are coming through and why those free online tips are just not enough to get you where you
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Want to go. So my name is Steve Schwartz. I’m the founder of Alside unplugged. It’s not live online, LSAT prep course. I also have a YouTube channel and podcast of the same name. I put out a lot of information on the LSAT. I’ve been teaching this since 2005 and I’m happy to answer any questions you might have for your audience.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I have a lot of questions. All right. So as you said, you have a YouTube. So what does that YouTube cover? Cause first I want to get them the info of where they can get info.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, sure. So the L set unplugged YouTube channel. I’m putting out several videos every single day, covering everything else at whether it’s strategies for logic games, logical reasoning, or reading comprehension, test preparation, or just the, all the crazy new L set format changes. I’m putting out coaching conversations, full length class recordings, interviews with current and former admission officers trying to share as much free information as I can.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
That’s great. And I know you share it in more condensed format on a, I’ve seen you on tech talk on Instagram anywhere else they can get kind of quick tips.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, sure. So I’ve got a lot going out on Facebook as well. There’s an Elsa unplugged Facebook group. I’m active in some of the other groups as well. I’ve also got the podcast, so I’m putting out every full length video you see on YouTube is also going on to the podcast as audio only for those who want to listen on the go.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Awesome. All right. And then you said that you have a course, right?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yep. So I’ve got a live bong line course for Elsen unplugged. We have classes going on almost every single day, as well as study groups, covering all the different sections of the exam. It’s a great place to connect with others, build community, because it can be really hard to feel like you’re going in alone sometimes. And it’s also expensive to pay for one-on-one coaching all the time. And so the course is a good option for those with a more limited budget who still want a lot of live interaction. And of course all the classroom classes are recorded. So you can catch them later if you miss anything.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
That’s awesome. I love that. Best of all worlds, it sounds like that’s a lot of fun. All right. So I know the Elsa has been going through a lot of changes in 2021. So why don’t you run down for us? What’s going on with the AllSat these days?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, sure. So just to backtrack a little bit, the Alsace used to be offered in person. They moved it online at the beginning of the pandemic, but when they moved it online, initially they reduced the length from only five sections to three sections, one scored logic games, one scored logical reasoning. Once we’re breeding comprehension that was called the L sat flex format. So you might see a lot of references to the flex floating around, out there. That was the three section format, but starting in August, they added back in an unscored extra experimental section. And so when they did that, the exam went from three sections to four and they simply called it the LSAT. So it still is online. It’s still at home, but one of the four sections is not scored and you don’t know which one it is during.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Okay. Are there certain ways that that can benefit a student?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Not really. Not really. I mean, basically the experimental section is really more meant to benefit El SAC in terms of calibrating, the difficulty level of future exam sections that will later be scored. But if you’re doing the four section from out, you’re basically doing one fourth of the exam for ALSAC to help them figure that out. So it’s not really to any individual student’s benefit in the short term, but it is what it is. And a lot of other exams do the same thing.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So is there a way that a student can know what that experimental section is while they’re taking the test?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Nope. Everybody wants to figure it out, of course, because if you knew you probably wouldn’t give it your full effort. And so for that same, very same reason, ALSAC, doesn’t want you to know. I’ve seen many students over the years back when the exam was five sections and have the experimental section, people will try to figure it out during, and they might get overconfident and then not even try, it ends up counting. You just bombed your score. So don’t try to figure it out during, just give it your full effort.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Okay. So if students feel like they bombed or they bombed one section, is there something they should be doing?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So give the rest of the exam, your full effort if you’re still sitting for the rest of it, because you never know, maybe the one that you bombed was actually the experimental secretary. In which case no big deal for you. If you bombed the exam after getting your score back then it’s unfortunate, but you can still retake it. It’s totally fine.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Okay. So don’t cancel a score. Don’t run for the Hills, nothing like that.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
No, I don’t really see it. I would never cancel a score during the exam because you have up to six calendar days after the exam to make the decision. So don’t do anything rash in the heat of the moment. I’m also not a big fan of canceling in general because law schools don’t average multiple scores. They only take the highest. So there’s not really a whole lot of reason to cancel. I think canceling is an artifact back from when the schools did average, but they no longer do.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah. They average when I went. So that was a really hard strategy to implement back in the day. You just never knew if you should take it again, if you’d do better or worse or what, so, okay. So is there ever a reason to cancel,
Speaker 2 (05:56):
If know, for a fact that something went horribly wrong, like let’s say the you’re on your school’s campus and the homecoming game is right outside your window. And the marching band is playing for the entire two to three hours and you could not focus at all then, you know, it’s probably not going to be a great score. You want to cancel that’s okay. Or if you just don’t answer an entire game or reading comp passenger, normally you would, that might have a significant impact on your score naturally. But in most cases, unless, you know, for a fact that there was a disaster of some kind, I probably just keep it. Cause there’ve been people who considered canceling great scores and didn’t ended up scoring 1 75 plus. So it’s always hard to kind of judge yourself with all the adrenaline, all the stress of the actual thing, but just know that you can, you got the chance to see what it is. And then if you want to retake retake
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Now, is there a strategy for a student let’s say that are fully ready to take the exam? They feel good. If you’re looking at the calendar year, when should they first take the L sat to get a score back and maybe retake it while still applying fairly early?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
It’s a great question. Yeah. So scores are good for five years, so there’s not really a whole lot of urgency regarding taking it right before you apply. If you have a pretty light summer, you can take it over the summer, even in sophomore year. If you know, for a fact law school is your journey. You could do between sophomore and junior year, if you want to. But for most people, they’re probably going to take it between junior and senior year into senior year. If they’re still in college or they’ll take it after graduating, which is fine too, I would recommend taking it pretty early, maybe in the spring or early summer. So that if you need more time or you want to retake, you could still do it in the late summer or early fall and apply real, pretty early in the cycle. So to put some specific months on this, maybe take it initially in April or June. And then if you want to retake it, you go for August or for September, depending on which month is offered that year.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Okay. And how soon should students start studying to kind of get the score they want?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Generally the earlier the better I find a lot of folks will try to knock it out in two to three months and then realize I need a lot more time. I recommend at least five to six months in order to achieve your fullest potential people. Occasionally ask is high school too early. I’d say yes, probably too early, enjoy high school in freshman year of college, enjoy sophomore year too. You don’t need to rush it. I think more than a year is probably overkill, but anywhere from five to six months to a year is what I would say is the max you want to do while giving yourself the most, the greatest amount of time to achieve your full potential.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Okay. And do you ever see people kind peak and then start losing it?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I’d say the losing, it can often come from burnout. If people are just burning the candle at both ends that are putting in eight, 10 hours a day for too long, a period, it just isn’t sustainable. And that’s where people can experience drop-offs. In which case they need to take a break and kind of tone it down a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Okay. All right. And have you ever had a student that just had a, you know, they just couldn’t do the OLSAT. They had a pretty low score, but they still got into a good school,
Speaker 2 (09:27):
A low score, still gain getting into a good school. It’s entirely possible. I mean, the Elsa is the biggest factor, but there are many other factors in the mix. There’s your GPA, there’s your work experience? There’s your resume, your personal statement. Of course. Any other optional [inaudible] all of that can make a big difference. Of course, it can’t overcome a super low L set score depending on what the mediums for particular school are, but you can get in even with low numbers in some cases.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Okay. Yeah. I think that a lot of students have that fear of, you know, th they keep putting in the time, but they’re not getting the results. And I think also they’re afraid to even change their study technique. Is there something you’ve noticed that can kind of shift that score when they’re just not getting that number?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah. So when you talked about changing the study technique, that’s big. A lot of students will just do the same exact thing again and again, and again, expecting different results, but a single insight can change everything about your prep. And personally, for me, I fell into that trap, that default mode of just taking exam after exam, after exam obsessively, measuring myself, looking for some hidden pattern that would unlock everything, but I wasn’t actually studying smarter. I was just doing more and more and more when in reality, I need to take fewer exams and review them in more depth. And that’s where the Socratic review method comes from, which is a cornerstone of my, of my courses and my material in general, helping students review better. That’s the key. Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I saw on your website, what was the quote? It was the, OLSAT almost ruined my life, I think is what I saw is that right?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah. Yeah. I was, I mean, I studied for this exam for an entire year and at least half of it was a complete waste of time. It was terrible. And I felt like a complete idiot as I just took an exam afterwards in my scores were not changing. But when I finally reviewed and start to see things from the test makers perspective, what goes into designing this exam, that’s what really changed it for me.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah. I can see that. I talked to a lot of students who like to do the self studying. They think they can do it on their own, which I’m sure some can, but they, I think fall into that trap of what you’re talking about, where they’re just repeating the same thing, rather than looking at it from a different perspective, looking at it from the test a giver’s perspective from [inaudible] perspective. All right. So your course helps them with that. I know you said you also helped them with accountability, right? Like as far as just feeling like they’re part of a group.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah. So we have a lot of structured study groups before and after every class, there are study groups going on, which are not as structured as a class, which is great because it gives students the ability to connect with each other, build community, find study buddies, to meet on the side as well. And then the classes are a great place for them to ask questions. And so I really focus a lot on live interaction. I think it’s so important because it’s so easy to feel like you’re going through it alone. And pre-internet back when zoom wasn’t a thing, or it was just online forums or even just that alone. Like, it wasn’t really enough, but now we can meet with people all over the world. And so you don’t have to feel like disconnected, even if you’re the only one in your personal life who is studying for the LSAT and going about this. And so I wanted to bring everybody together. And then of course, if you can’t make it, the classes are all recorded. And a big part of the classes is helping students learn to review better route that Socratic review methods. So we’ll do walkthroughs in class. We’ll spend an entire hour analyzing one question in depth, seeing it from different perspectives, which is really gonna make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Oh my gosh. Yeah. I know that in the online groups and the Facebook groups for the Elsa or for just pre-law, I constantly see two questions. One is can somebody review my personal statement? And two, does someone want to be my accountability buddy for the LSAT studying? So that’s super important. That’s great. You provide that because that is literally the top thing I see out there. All right. So going into depth in that much detail with one question, I feel like in some ways it’s almost like a waste of time because you know, then you’re excluding everything else, right? You’re not focused on all the stuff you’re focused on one little thing. So does that really make that much of a difference for everyone?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
It does because here’s the thing. I mean there’s 89 numbered exams, a handful that are unnumbered. So you’ve got approximately a hundred prep tests, practice exams that were previously administered that have been released by ALSAC a hundred exams, a hundred questions per exam. That’s 10,000 questions. Students get this mindset where they want to complete all of them from number one, all the way up to present. I get the impulse. I was the same way. But the thing is that if you’re going to cover that many questions, you can’t go into enough detail. You can’t go in depth enough, which each with each individual question to really understand the method of reasoning or the tempting wrong answer, the unappealing right answer and ALSAC is great at laying these traps. And if you just keep doing questions that reviewing sufficiently, you’re going to keep making the same mistakes.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I’m friends with a guy who used to write actual LSI questions for ALSAC. And one thing he said, which always stuck with me is that you could do Olin Kenny exams ever. And that would be enough to get a top score. If you understood the questions in those 10 exams to a great enough degree. So I go for depth over breadth, taking a few questions and going into excruciating detail on them, analyzing them from every angle, rewriting them, looking at the arguments, looking at all of the answer choices. What makes them tempting? What makes them wrong? What makes the answer on, on appealing? What ultimately makes it correct. And helping students learn to do this for themselves better outside of class, when they’re doing, studying on their own. That’s what makes the difference, figuring out what you are uniquely prone to falling forward, which tricks, and then avoiding those mistakes next time around.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
That makes sense. Okay. Yeah. That’s a lot of questions. Yeah. No. When you put that in perspective, a thousand questions, I mean, that’s just not really
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Doable 10,000 questions
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Or 10,000. Sorry. That’s what I meant. That’s what I was saying in my head. If you’re doing 10,000 questions, I mean, you have to go so fast to get that done. Even in a year’s time. It’s just, yeah. It’s not possible to do a good job in in-depth job. And I’m sure even when you get a question, right, you still should be double-checking why did I get this right? You don’t, did I actually understand this? Or was this actually just luck of the draw that I pick the right answer?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah. If you were ducted too, and you got lucky, it could have just easily gone the other way, or if you weren’t a hundred percent sure on it, but still got it. Right. Maybe next time based on it being a different topic or something, maybe you go the other way. And I mean, listen, here’s the thing. Back when I took this exam, there were like maybe 45 number prep tests. Now there’s like double. That doesn’t mean you have to do double the amount of work to properly prepare just because there’s been more released. Doesn’t mean you have to study all of those additional exams as well. Whatever the appropriate number of exams is, maybe it’s 10, maybe it’s 20 based on your timeline and your goals. That’s probably enough. Just make sure you understand those thoroughly. And then that might be all you need.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
That’s a good point. Okay. Now I think I saw on your website that when you changed your study style, you saw like a, something like a five or 10 point increase in like a month or something like that. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah. It happened pretty quickly. It was big.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Wow. Okay. That’s amazing. Because again, I think that students trudge along month after month and they see the scene a one point and then this one more point and they’re not getting very far. And they, again, just think that the more practice they do, they’ll get up to that decent score versus a jump from just changing how you approach the test.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah. Cause it’s not the L sat is not a tested memorization. It’s not like getting more vocabulary words under your belt will automatically lead to a few more points or memorizing. A new fact will lead to a few more points. It’s not like biology or anything like that, where you would use flashcards. This is a skills-based test. And so if you change your approach on something and the new way works better, better than the old way, that’s going to raise your score across the board and all sections potentially, or all at least all questions of that type. But it’s going to lead to a big lift because the concepts you’re getting the concepts, not just factoids
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Now are there since we’re taking this test at home, are there general tips and tricks for making your environment a good testing environment?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, definitely. So first of all, say a strong internet connection is key because it is online. It is live, there’s live Proctor. And so if your internet goes out for more than a minute or two, that could potentially invalidate the whole exam. Wow. So you want to make sure you have a strong connection, ideally plugged in wired ethernet, if possible. You also want to make sure that your roommates, family significant other, whoever else, they’re all going to be quiet, not interrupt you. Those are two of the biggest things I’d say.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Okay. Yeah. I don’t even know how that would have been possible for me. I, you know, when I used to study during my one L year, my dad would turn on his favorite movie, hook it up to the stereo. The whole house will be rumbling. And I’m like, I’m trying to study for my finals. Dad, can you turn off the stereo?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Oh, for sure. For sure. And speaking of that, if somebody else is watching a movie these days, that means it’s like Netflix or prime, they’re going to be using up that bandwidth. So they can’t be streaming videos or being on zoom calls during your exam, because that could lead it to buffer and cause issues.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Oh my gosh, I’m getting more and more scared. The more we talk. No,
Speaker 2 (19:24):
No, just, you’ve just got to make sure everybody knows, threaten them or reward them for doing the right thing, whatever you want to make sure that it’s as smooth as possible. And it just requires having other people know what’s going on or scheduling your exam during a time when your roommates aren’t also doing zoom calls for work or something.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Okay. Now, considering they just made this change. I mean, obviously the flux change was mandatory. That kind of became a necessity that they didn’t plan on. But now they’re adding in this fourth section, any other foreseeable changes in the next year or so?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I think it’s going to remain online longterm. I mean, I think it will be the same way it is now. They couldn’t have gone with the flex forever because they need to be able to test out future questions, which is why they brought about the experimental. They brought it back in, but now that they brought it back in and they like doing three sports sections, one unscored, I think it’ll just stay this way longterm. They haven’t made any guarantees or promises about it beyond June 20, 22. But I think the online at home is here to stay.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
What seems like it’s a much better fit for those who need accommodations. Is that your understanding?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
It does help with that you’re right. Because they are able to give people more personalized accommodations for extra time, whether it’s time and a half or double time or additional breaks, if they were offering it in person, they need to put that extra time in a different room or have them offer it on a different day. So there’s more logistics in terms of booking spots. But now that it’s online, if you’re at home, just a matter of choosing a different time slot the proctors, know the requirements and they’re good to help you out with it.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah. I’ve heard from a few people that they really appreciate the Elsa at least flex the online version because yeah, they could stand up, they could do different things that accommodated in physical problems or whatnot. So it just seems like this is a good way to go. At least for the majority of the people, it seems like going back to physical testing might still have a place as far as those who really need to get out of their environments and have a place to take a test. Or do you see some type of alternative to that?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
You’re right. That in some cases, of course not everybody has a strong internet connection. Not everybody has a quiet home environment. And so El SAC, what they’re doing is they’re reimbursing you for taking it at a hotel or an Airbnb. So they’ll reimburse you up to $125 to take it elsewhere. So as long as you plan ahead and make those arrangements, you could still be good for the strong internet and quiet environment, even without ALSAC having to book, test centers or anything like that. And by the way, you mentioned accommodations, one benefit of the online LSAT software is that you can increase the text size. You can increase the line spacing as well. And so for those who might have visual issues that could, that could definitely do something to help.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Now, is there a commendations for those who really do need to see it on paper,
Speaker 2 (22:26):
They do offer a paper settings in rare cases, but depending on the particulars of why the person needs that if they have to be appropriate documentation, Elsa has become a lot better in recent years regarding accommodations. That used to be very strict about it and got sued a number of times. And as I think you heard about this. Yeah. So ever since then, they’ve gone the other direction and they’re become a lot more liberal about it. And so anyone who thinks they might qualify should definitely apply for them, get the, get the documentation together with advanced notice for ALSAC and then hopefully they can get whatever they, whatever they need for a future test setting.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Okay. And how far in advance should people be applying for the accommodations?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I would start putting it together a few months prior. It takes El SAC is a bureaucracy. They move slowly. They might ask for more documentation. And so planning ahead the earlier the better.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
All right. Yeah. The less stress you put towards that L set the better. Yeah, definitely. And what about this? What is it the early preview on your score? That’s a new thing, right?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
That’s a new thing yet. So the LSAT score preview, they started about a year ago. And basically what that means is that if it’s your first time ever sitting for an Elsa administration, you get to see your score before deciding whether to cancel. Now, we said earlier that canceling is, there’s no reason to cancel, unless it’s a rare case where, you know, something went terribly wrong. And so this is more, just a psychological benefit for test-takers takers. Use the stress a little bit, then something that I think would actually impact admissions. I think in very few cases, should anybody ever cancel, even if your score was low, then you take it again and get a higher score. You can show an upward trending. A cancellation is like a big question mark for law schools. But of course a cancellation or two is no big deal.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Okay. All right. So you see that score. If it comes back super low and you’re just like, I don’t want that any part of my record, you can get rid of it before it technically kind of comes out, but you have to pay for that, right?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yes. There is a fee. So it’s $45. If you pay for score, preview in advance and $75, if you pay for score preview after whatever their deadline is. So basically if you feel like didn’t go, well, then you decide you’re paying a bit of a premium for that decision. Otherwise you’re giving them the money up front. I don’t think anybody needs to do score preview, but again, if it could reduce the stress, then it’s worth it.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Okay. Yeah. Now I know some students, you know, they’re not getting the score they want, so they decide to delay attending law school for a year. Is that a strategy recommend or what do you recommend when they’re, you know, kind of at the tail end of the application cycle and they’re not with the score they want?
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah. I mean, I, I would recommend in most cases like that to wait a year to apply, it might seem like a long time in the grand scheme of things. But if you can get, get into a better law school or get more scholarship money by retaking the LSAT, then it’s probably worth it. But you have to balance that with the, the opportunity cost of leaving behind law school for a year and sticking with whatever you’re currently doing. Because a year salary after graduating is probably going to be more money than a year of whatever your current salary is or assuming that salary is important to you. Right. So I would think that there are no easy decisions here, but a better score can make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, no, it’s definitely, there’s so many factors with, you know, for me, I took a few gap years and I cannot recommend them enough. So for me, I’m like, Hey, if you can take a year, go have some fun. And yeah, it does depend on your budget. And if you want to get to that higher salary sooner, but for me, I’m like just take a mental break or relax and enjoy life a bit, go to a few concerts. Unfortunately, if you took a gap year, this last year, you couldn’t do that, but all other years but yeah, and then maybe get some amazing work experience, potentially. It’s hard to say.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
And you could also take time to decide whether your law school is really right for you get some on the ground work experience, working as a paralegal, if you’re not already or interning somewhere just to get that exposure. And then that can also provide the raw material for a great personal statement.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah. So are there major errors that you see aside from just repeating the same study habits? Are there mistakes you see students making that they should watch out for when they’re studying for the LSAT?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I’ve occasionally seen people try to do logic games in their head and not diagram at all, which I think is a huge mistake because logic games push past the limits of normal working memory. So they give you scratch paper, take advantage of it, write things down, but don’t over diagram, logical reasoning. So logic games definitely worth diagramming, but then people apply the same thing to logical reasoning where they’ll diagram everything add most arguments diagram. It doesn’t help because it’s informal logic. You want to treat like you’re having a conversation with somebody.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Okay. Let’s see. Yeah. I can’t even imagine doing logic games without writing them down. I think even the basic ones I have to at least write a few scratch marks just to make sure I’m keeping it organized. I don’t know. But yeah, I I’m cringing right now.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
I, I certainly, I personally, I wouldn’t be able to do them in my head either. I need you to write them down.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It’s funny because you know, I go back and I see people posting logic games on Instagram and I keep trying to do them and it’s been way too long. I just even diagramming them. I don’t think I’m getting them right.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
So it’s, it’s, it’s a skills thing, but still you can get rusty if you haven’t done it in a while, you’ve got to get into the routine. So these are, these are the, there are these patterns that you want to bring up from your subconscious to your conscious mind so that you can make those connections between games that the new games and the games you’ve done in the past.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah. Now I know I mentioned this to you when we were off the air, but I took a survey of students and 50% of them said they spent $500 or less on their El sat, prep, all their materials, all of that, which sounds astronomically low in my mind. It doesn’t sound like not that I have an exact dollar figure, but it doesn’t sound like they’re spending quite enough to make sure that they’re getting all the tips and tricks they need. If there was kind of a magical number that you feel like most students could get by for some dollar amount what would that be?
Speaker 2 (28:57):
That’s a good question. I mean, I’m hesitant to give it an exact specific number just because people have different budgets and people have different goals, but I, I do think, and you mentioned this earlier off the air that students, a lot of students are trying to get by with the free tapes they find online. And I see this as someone who puts out a ton of free information through the YouTube channel, the podcast, Instagram, Facebook, all of that, but the free material out there is not really enough. Even Khan academy is maybe a decent starting point, but it’s certainly not sufficient. And so you have to ask yourself rather than going by default with what you find out there for free, just because, Hey, it’s free. What do you think would be the most useful, most valuable prep material for yourself to get, even if you had to pay for it and how much would it cost?
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And then what do you see the ROI being on getting five points more on your L set, 10 points, more, 15, 20, even just a few points more on your LSAT score could lead to thousands of dollars in scholarship money or getting into a better law school. So even if you had to spend $1,000 to get 10,000 in scholarships, it’d be well worth it. Law school, where you go to law school and how much scholarship money you get avoiding taking on tuition debt, some of the easiest money you’ll ever make just by studying for the offset.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, that was, I was shocked by the survey results because not that I was proposing people go and spend, you know, $5,000 on studying materials, but you’re investing in their education to again, then get that investment back from the law schools just seem like it made so much more sense, but it doesn’t seem like it’s always conveyed. And I, I do think it’s that free material out there that maybe people misconstrue that as all the material. And it certainly is not
Speaker 2 (30:54):
The other thing with the free materials that typically is it isn’t structured. And so you could endlessly consume Facebook posts or Reddit posts and feel like you’re studying. But in reality, you’re just reading about other people studying, and maybe they’re giving you some useful tips, but you need to actually implement them and you can implement them on the prep tests, but you don’t always know what the source of the material of the advice that you’re getting out there. And if you’re pulling a tip from here and a tip from there, and it’s not cohesive, they might advise my conflict with each other, or you might feel like you have to do everything they’re recommending, but you can’t do everything simultaneously. So you need to have a structured plan of attack. And that’s what I am to give students in my courses.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah. I think that makes so much more sense. And I think that you can go into your test feeling less stressed because, you know, you did everything that you could to be successful, that you actually had a strategy, not just some haphazard put together, you know, thing. It was an actual plan of attack that has worked for other people. And I think for me, I’ve always been a good standardized test taker, but I think that’s also because I’ve always made sure to take a course and one that had, you know, success a history. So I knew, Hey, it worked for a lot of other people. It should work for me. And that helped me go into my test, feeling a lot more calm and secure.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Absolutely. I mean, you want to know you’ve done everything you can. And one of the cool things about the online prep these days, as opposed to the in-person from back in the day is that the in-person courses back in the day, it used to be a two to three month course. It would cost you like $1,500, which I still think was worth the investment if it was a good course, but it was a lot to shot once now with the online courses, a lot of them like mine are monthly month to month. You can cancel anytime. So it’s a much lower buy-in, so you can try it out for a month, then decide if it’s right for you. And a lot of programs like mine included offer money back guarantees. So there’s actually not really any risk. You could try it out, do the whole 30 days then say, Hey, I didn’t like it and canceled. Wow, you could do that. I’m not saying people should do that, but it’s a way to mitigate the risk. And so I would encourage students. If they see a resource, they think would be valuable, look at the terms, look at the guarantees and then say, Hey, I’m going to take a little bit of a leap going beyond the free stuff out there and try something premium and see what it’s like. And then hopefully you find it valuable and you continue and it fuels you getting a top score.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah. That’s also much better to me please. Listen guys. Just, yeah, don’t do the self study a hundred percent of the time. Get a little guidance and make sure you are doing everything you’re supposed to. Oh my God. Okay. All right, Steve, thank you so much for your vice today. Now I know we talked about your different channels and so forth, so I just want to make sure they actually have the different URL. So can you run through them for us? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Sure. So again, I’m Steve Schwartz. I created the outside, outside unplugged prep course, my channels that are available for free out there. I have the Elsa unplugged YouTube channel. Also the unplugged podcast, Facebook group, Instagram, even tic-tac I’ve also got to help students get started. I’ve got a free, easy L set cheat sheet, download that any listeners out there can get by going to bit dot Lee, B I T dot L Y slash L set cheat sheet. And that’s a great way to get started.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
That’s great. Go download it. Guys. Get started on the right foot. I cannot tell you how many people I know spend months just kind of almost running in circles. So get it going, get it going right. All right. Thanks again, Steve. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Thank you, Julian. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Before we get into my top takeaways, a quick word from our sponsor, Juno, if you need to take out student loans, check in with Juno. First, Juno can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and oftentimes cash back as well. Visit advisor.legal learning center.com for more information, my top takeaways from this chat with Steve. Number one, the sat now has an experimental section, but you won’t know which one it is. Number two, digging deep into method and reasoning is more helpful than doing more questions. And number three, the free material online is just not enough. You need to invest in your education and you will get that back. Now. Full transcript is available @legallearningcenter.com/LSATunplugged. The show notes will be there as well. And as always, if you learned something today, if you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review that just helps us help more people. Thanks.
