Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the Legal Learning Center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school. Legal Learning Center members will be invited to a live webinar offering strategies that could save you tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars on law school. Visit legallearningcenter.com to join the wait list. Today’s guest is Akiesha Anderson of Anderson Admissions Academy. She’s going to talk about what it’s like to be an admissions counselor and answer the tough questions submitted by you. Our listeners, we’re going to cover questions about wait lists, splitters, transfer students, and more so stay tuned.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hi everyone. I am thrilled to be here today. My name is Akisha Anderson. I am the former associate director of admissions for UCLA school of law. I am currently based in Montgomery, Alabama. Full-Time I serve as a lawyer lobbyist. They do criminal justice reform lobbying but then on the side, outside of my day job, I run a business called Anderson Admissions Academy. And so the easiest way to find out more information about me is to follow me on Instagram @askakisha but in a nutshell Anderson Admissions Academy, was created to help low-income, first-generation and underrepresented minority students learn how to navigate the law school admissions process and to help those students get into law school. So I’m happy to be here today. Thank you, Jolene.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So happy to have you and I have so many questions for you.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So first of all, when did you stop being a UCLA admissions counselor?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I left January 2020, so a little over a year ago.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay. So that’s actually fairly recent.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah. Okay. So literally right before COVID hit is when I moved from LA to Alabama. Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So the first thing I want to know is a little bit about being an admissions counselor. How do you actually become one?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Good question. And so admissions jobs, I would say are probably few and far between in part, because many people that work in admissions stay there for a long time and there’s nothing wrong with that. But every law school has an admissions office, right? And so usually admissions offices have a minimum of at least two staff probably that doesn’t include support staff, such as the administrative assistant, etcetera. And on the larger end, I would say UCLA was probably larger. We had about three, well, not about, we actually had three admissions staff and about three contracts staff. I’m going to stop saying about, but three staff people that helped us read applications. So we received about 7,000 a year. And so a large part of being an admissions officer requires being able to read applications, to be able to make determinations about who is a good law school candidate based on a range of factors, not just LSAT score and GPA, but you know, the schools personality, what type of student would fit well with the school environment etcetera.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
And so oftentimes law schools are interested in having lawyers serve as admissions officers in part, not just because your job requires you to be able to review law school applications, but because your job requires you to be able to recruit law students and talk about what the law school experience is like, what the law school experience at your specific school is like, etcetera. And lawyers are truly the only people that know firsthand, what that experience is like. And so part of becoming an admissions officer usually does require having a law degree. There are, of course, some people that are admissions officers that don’t have a law degree, there are some people would have master’s degree or other qualifications, but that is the easiest way or most common way I would say to become an admissions officer is to have a law degree and then just be on the lookout for job postings from different universities. Their law offices are the law school admissions offices.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
That makes a lot of sense. All right. So I know admissions counselors are busy, as you just said, about 7,000 applications at UCLA, I feel like there’s a big portion of the year where they’re going through these applications and making decisions. And then I feel like they almost go into hibernation, like what to the counselors do during the part of the year where maybe there’s not the actual, you know applications to review.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I think admissions officers wish that there was a hibernation period. The truth is there is a cycle. And at every given point of the year, admissions officers are at some point of the cycle. So for example, we are in April right now. And so for many schools, their law school application deadline has passed or it’s coming up and you would think that offices are like gearing down again, ready to relax, have a nice summer break. And that is not what’s happening. Schools at this point, usually schools have an April 15th deposit deadline. Once students make their deposit and April 15th or whatever day it is, schools have some sort of sense of what their incoming class is going to look like, how many seats they have left to fill etcetera. And so at that point, they are kicked into gear in terms of looking at their wait lists, which is a whole ‘nother phase of like re-reviewing applications.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
So oftentimes schools have hundreds of students on their wait lists and those applicants get a whole ‘nother review, which, you know, means that the summertime is spent reviewing the candidates for the wait list seeing who to pull off the wait list. Also if you ever go to like LSAC.org and you see these pretty profiles about every law school – law schools write those. And so we are spending summers like updating the information that are on all of these websites about us. We are also, oftentimes the admissions office is also responsible – plays some role in admitted student data, orientation for incoming students. And so oftentimes admissions officers are helping out with that and preparing for that as well. And so that is what the summer looks like. Although it is a bit calmer than the rest of the year, it is still pretty busy.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
In the fall applications, typically open application portals typically open in September, but traveling and starting to do law school fairs gears back up in July. And so that’s usually the first law school fair of the upcoming cycle. And so starting July all the way into December and into January or February for some schools, law school admissions officers are on the road, meeting students, meeting candidates, talking to them, trying to sell their school to them. And oftentimes in the fall while they are doing all of the law school affairs, traveling throughout the country, they are also reviewing applications on planes in their hotel room, etcetera. And then come, you know, early spring, January through March is when law school admissions officers are really doing the bulk of like reviewing applications because they are definitely trying to make sure that they have reviewed everything before, in time to do their admitted student days and get students there. And so it is really like a year long cycle of busy-ness to be very honest.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
All right. And you have covered so much, you’re raising all the questions that I have, so, okay. What are the most important factors in a law school application?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, so I like to describe application components as either hard factors or soft factors. And so hard factors and law students see this on Reddit, but hard factors are your LSAT score and your GPA and soft factors are everything else. So what professors say about you and your letters of recommendation, what you say about yourself and your personal statement, what you say about yourself in the application that you fill out for school, etcetera, I would like to think, and there is no real science on this. This is just my guesstimation based on my experience, but I would like to think that hard factors typically account for about two thirds of a law school admissions decision, which feels like a lot, but that means that about a third of a law school admissions decision is determined based on your soft factors, which is really where, you know, students are able to tip the scale.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And I say that for a lot of students their decision comes down to those soft factors. And so I say that, you know, trying to show a school that, you know, you’re well-rounded that you were involved on campus, or that you were involved in things outside class. I’m trying to show a school that, you know, you are the type of student that professors enjoy having in class, that you participate, you do your homework, you’re engaged, I’m trying to show a school via your personal statement that, you know, you have a clear understanding of why you’re going to law school. You have a purpose in mind, you have clarity about, you know, why law is the path for you. So trying to demonstrate all of these things to schools, utilizing soft factors really does make a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Okay. So yes, we did have a question submitted by LSAT Right. And they wanted to know, why do you guys say we take a holistic approach when we all know it’s the LSAT and the GPA that are heavily weighted, but it sounds like you’ve just answered that, which is basically yes, we acknowledge it’s the heaviest section, but there is that one third that really does make or break an application.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah. And I like to add onto that. Some schools do provide data on LSAC.org. If you look at their school profiles they provide like actual data of like numbers of like how many students apply with the LSAT score. That was a 154 through a 158. How many students apply with a GPA, a 3.4 to a 3.8. And so really like detailed grids and something that I really enjoyed when I worked at UCLA and I was able to go on our site and show students that grid was that I often could show them like, look, our median LSAT score right now is a 168. Our median GPA is a 3.79, but this grid, which is based on data from a very recent year shows you that X number of students applied with the 158 and a 2. whatever.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
And out of this number, even though not many got in, one student got in. And so like, there is hope for you to have numbers that are like really far seemingly far out from what those median LSAT scores and GPA’s are and get into a school. And that usually it’s because of your soft factors and the fact that you were able to present a story that just may make it so hard for a school to, you know, not want to get you in. And so every school doesn’t provide those grids, but some schools do provide them. But yeah it does not always come down to just your GPA and LSAT score. Sometimes those other factors, again, really do make the difference for students.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So are there certain things that stand out in your mind that really when you’ve reviewed applications in the past, like you thought, like you can still remember their application and say, wow, that student really stood out to me.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah. I mean, I think stories of overcoming hardship are always going to be really compelling. I think that some students have overcome more significant hardships than others and not to go into too much detail, but one student who was absolutely one of my favorite students at UCLA had just really extreme hardships that he overcame just from childhood up until law school. And, you know, it’s a story like, wow, how are you even here today? How did you make it? And so I think that those sorts of things really stand out. There are also candidates that really stand out because professors write these amazing letters that, you know, literally make you feel like you would be foolish not to accept them. This candidate is going to be, I mean, the professors don’t say this, but like, by reading the letters like, Oh my goodness, this kind of is going to be like a Nobel peace, a Nobel prize winner someday, you know?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
And so just reading letters of recommendation and reading personal statements really makes a difference. But what I will say too, is that some schools offer optional questions. And so optional questions are just that, you do not have to answer them, but you can, if you want to. But questions that are optional usually are designed to gather more information about a candidate that a school elsewise wouldn’t know. And I do feel like students that take the time to answer those optional questions. They’re able to paint a fuller picture of who they are, which makes it easier for a school when they’re determining between two candidates who have the exact same numbers and are just trying to figure out, do I pick candidate A or candidate B, well, candidate B gave me a lot more information about themselves. So I have a lot more to argue, you know, to use an argument in favor of them than I do for candidate A. And so that makes a huge difference as well. So I definitely like to recommend or stress to students, take time to fill out those optional questions and fill out every piece of your application. Well, because you are essentially giving admissions officers the tools to make the case for or against you.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
So can you give me a few examples of what those questions might be?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah. So some easy ones for UCLA application, there were questions. Like what programs do we have that interests you? So I like to tell students that, you know, what you’re thinking about currently in terms of going to law school, what is currently driving you? No, one’s going to hold your feet to the fire once you get to law school. So if you say that you’re interested in environmental law and you’re interested in the environmental law program at UCLA that shows us that you did some research on our school, you know, our own, the school, you know, you know that they have a really great environmental law program. It doesn’t mean that we, that you’re going to be forced to take environmental law classes when you get there, it just shows that, you know, this is your current interest, but that’s a really easy question.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Like, what programs are you interested in? You know, there are questions like, what do your parents do for a living? What’s their highest level of education. What’s their highest level of income. Is there anything you want us to know about your LSAT score or GPA? I think questions like that that are often viewed by students as making excuses. I don’t want to admit that I got an F in class, you know, my freshman year, because I wasn’t serious or I didn’t, you know, take school seriously, but a school is asking you that because they want the context so that they can, you know, defend you. So answer these questions and it’s optional. You don’t have to answer that question that says, is there anything you want me to know about your LSAT score or GPA, but it’s to your benefit to answer it because that way a school can say yes, so the GPA is a bit lower. He got an F his freshman year, but that’s because he was a freshmen and like freshmen, you know, often are, he wasn’t as serious about school as he was come his senior year, etcetera. And so, yeah, those are just some of the optional questions that students can sometimes see in applications.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Okay. That makes a lot of sense. So how important, or how much does it weigh on an application if somebody has a double major or a minor, does that matter at all? Or is it worth a few points?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I would say it depends. And it depends on what the double major is. And so if you have a double major in an area where a school really wants more students that have that specific major, then it makes a difference, but more often than not, it doesn’t actually make a difference. And so what some schools, for example are really interested in getting more STEM majors into their school. And so that’s because IP law and patent law, you know, are becoming really big areas. And so if you were really interested in English, but you also, you know, double majored in biology, that makes a difference because now you get to count biology as your major. But you also could get the same benefit by just majoring in biology. And so it doesn’t necessarily benefit you in the sense that a school says you majored in two different things, you are a stellar student. Because the assumption is that most students applying to law school are stellar students. And all that shows is that you just had interests in different areas. So you do not have to double major, you do not have to feel like, you know, that will set you apart. Because unfortunately it often doesn’t. It’s just listed as you had two majors.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It’s what I’ve been telling students, but I’m not an admissions counselor, so I’m glad to hear that, but really if you’re a poli Sci and a history major, it’s kind of almost just one big major. Now it let’s say you’ve already graduated and you’re returning to school and maybe your undergrad GPA is not the best if you want to bolster it a little bit, maybe go back to the community college, take a few classes. One, does that impact your GPA or your application? And then two, is there a difference, like if I take, you know, puppetry classes versus, you know, intro to business law, is that gonna make a difference?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah. So this is a question that I often got a lot when I was working in admissions. And the unfortunate reality here as well is that once you get your first undergraduate degree, your GPA is set in stone. And so you can go back and get another undergraduate degree. You can go back and take additional classes in community college, but the GPA that a law school is going to look at when determining your GPA is that one from your first initial degree, you can, however utilize the fact that you took additional classes and that the same goes for, if you get a graduate degree, you can utilize the fact that you took additional classes or that you got a graduate degree to kind of provide context. If you want to write an addendum or explain on your resume or other ways that, you know, you are a more serious student now than you were the first time that you were an undergraduate student, but in terms of your GPA, there is no way to kind of bolster that after you have gotten that initial degree.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Okay. And so to that effect, it sounds like classes, they don’t have to be super serious, but classes that are on the more serious side and with decent GPA, even though again, the GPA doesn’t factor in will still help your application more than if you take a bunch of puppetry classes.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
If you’re going to take classes after you’ve gotten your degree, I think that classes that have something related to the skills that you’re going to need to utilize in law school are definitely going to benefit you more. So classes such as legal studies or things that require a lot of research and writing. Those are the sorts of things that you want to be aiming for. Definitely over basket-weaving 101 or puppetry. So yes, you’re correct.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Okay. So I have some questions about the wait lists. And I know this is a hot topic right now, especially, but okay. So I know wait lists can obviously move even like the first day of school. It’s not really, it’s a flowing thing, but when do they really kind of slow to molasses?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So i actually managed our wait lists when I was at UCLA. So I can tell you that the waitlist is often very unpredictable, to be honest, it just depends on the year. And so I mentioned earlier that, you know, deposit deadlines are typically April 15th, depending on how many students place a deposit. Let’s say for example, a school knows that they want at a bare minimum to fill 300 seats, but they have a capacity like physical capacity based on classroom size, etcetera, to fill 325 seats. That means that their goal is to get somewhere between 300, 325 students into their school. But let’s say that the deposit deadline rolls around April 15th, 350 students placed a deposit. You know, our schools typically know that students are going to get off waitlists at other schools. And so that, that number on April 15th is usually going to be a bit higher, or sometimes a bit lower than what it will be come to start of school.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But if you have, you know, more students than you have space for the waitlist is obviously going to be molasses at the very beginning. Other end, if you again, have a minimum number of seats to fill at 300 and only 280 students place a deposit then right off the bat, starting in April and May like that waitlist is probably going to move. But what is probably most common is that schools have that wiggle room somewhere between 300 to 325. And they hit their goal initially. So about 315 students place a deposit. And so you’re in a comfortable position as the summer progresses. That’s when students start getting pulled from other wait lists students decide they would like to defer a year. Students just, you know, decide law school isn’t for them that number may go down a little.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And so based on how many seats are left to fill, the waitlist moves. And so it really is so unpredictable. There have been years where schools have pooled a third of their classroom from the waitlist. There have been years where schools have only pulled maybe like 3 to 10 people from the wait list. And so it’s really, really unpredictable, unfortunately this year, because there was such an increase in the number of applicants and applications that schools received, I don’t know this for certain, but I anticipate that the wait list process will be extremely slow, much slower than usual, just because there was such an abundance of applicants. And so this year in terms of getting pulled off the wait list, it might be where students are holding their breath up until the day that school starts and students still get pulled from the wait list. Like you said, you know, the first day of orientation, like at the very last minute. And so that is possible, but it is possible that, you know, there may not be many schools right now in April or May pulling students from the wait list. But at the same time, I do have a client who got pulled from two wait lists already. And so we’re still in April. And so there’s really no telling to be honest. It’s so that’s a long way of saying it depends.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
That’s really good to know though, because the wait lists are such vague things like no one knows they’re so hush, hush, and I, I mean, obviously yeah, you can’t predict exactly, but you know, students are just so in the dark, what does it mean? And I don’t think a lot of students realize just how long they can be on the wait list that they can literally get an acceptance. Yeah. Like orientation day.
In certain areas of the country, like LA and New York and stuff like that, your students might accept a school in LA and then another school from LA accepts them at the last minute. And that may not be such a big transition, but you know, if we’re talking about state to state or even, you know, Northern Southern California, that’s a big move. Is there a point where you recommend that students say, okay, look, I’m not off the wait list. I’m basically mentally taking myself off that wait list. I’m not going to move the week before school starts, you know, that kind of thing. Is there an ideal sweet spot that you would recommend people if they have to move, just say, look, move on.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
The schools are really fearful of students not wanting them. And so even when you’re on the wait list, schools assume that you have been admitted to other schools and that, you know, if they do reach out to you and asked you or offer you, you know, a seat that you will turn it down, right. And so schools want students that want them. And so something that students should be doing is sending letters, of continue interest once a month, as long as they remain interested in a school. Schools often do take into consideration things like an out-of-state student is going to be less likely to come here last minute, compared to the in-state or in city student. And I know I had an uncomfortable conversation with someone on the wait list years ago, who was an in city student.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I explained that to him and he kind of got a bit upset, but he was pulled off the wait list pretty late, but it, it was the truth, like sometimes earlier on in the cycle, schools do try to prioritize those out-of-state students because they know that they won’t be able to get them later in the waitlist process. And so that may be something that can give some students, some comfort, knowing that schools, you know, are aware of that reality and, you know, take that into consideration. But I would say a month before school starts is probably the time that you should use as your cutoff. I definitely think that it is a lot to move across country, to find an apartment. You can do it. But law schools are stressful enough. And to the extent that you can save yourself some stress before stepping into a really stressful situation you want to do that for yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And so schools usually start mid to late April and so mid to late July, if you haven’t heard from a school, definitely, you know, consider stopping or no longer sending letters of continued interest. If a school reaches out to you, they often will ask you, you know, are you willing to relocate or do you have family here? Would you be able to do this? But be honest, if that’s no longer an option for you in schools, we’ll understand that. But that also is news for students that are in the city that, you know, they want to go to school at, but maybe they can feel encouraged that if there is a last minute spot then becomes available, you are probably one of the people that they’re going to consider, because it is unlikely that, you know, someone from New York can move to Chicago at the drop of a hat if possible, but it’s unlikely. And so it’s not probable. So, yeah. So that’s kind of the question about out-of-state in-state waitlist decisions and when to stop, you know, holding your breath,
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I had no idea that there was a difference between the in-state and out-of-state applicants. So that’s really good to know now what about these letters of continued interest? So it seems to me, if you are interested in a school you apply and that you by nature of applying have continued interest. So does that letter really help or, I mean, it seems a little unfair if someone didn’t know to send it and they don’t send it, are they put lower on that wait list?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Not always. And that is a very loaded answer that I just gave, not always what I will say is I too hate that students don’t always know about this letter of continued interest. I will say that when it comes to reviewing applications, that second go around for the wait list, all students are considered. But the letter of continued interest does make it easier for a school to know like Johnny definitely will come because he has been emailing me like every month. Sarah will definitely come. And so I have definitely seen where the students who send letters of continued interest do have our attention. I’ve also seen where students who have never sent a letter of continue interest, get pulled off of a wait list. And so it just depends. Oftentimes schools will get to a point where even though they review all the applications, there will be a day where it’s like today I need a candidate that fits this criteria tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
I need a candidate that fits this criteria. And so whatever that criteria is, you kind of narrow down the wait list. And yes, looking through like which candidates that sent letters of continued interest, plus the other candidates, you know, it’s something that you will do. Yeah, I say sending those letters of continued interest does help with that guessing game of whether or not this person would consider coming here. Not even last minute, like even after a student commits with another school, because we know students have placed a deposit somewhere else, if they did the right thing they should do so. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Okay. That makes sense. Now, are there personal statement topics that are overdone that’s submitted by listener McKayla.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
As in, are there personal statement topics that people use too often?
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah. That are just like you guys are falling asleep?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Actually. No. And I know that students don’t like hearing this from me, but I believe that personal statements in and of themselves usually aren’t as unique as students want them to be. And, but that’s a good thing. I think that there are personal statement themes that like admissions officers see like over and over again. There are themes like a student’s origin story. There are things like, you know, a specific event led me to wanting to come to law school. There are themes such as I am really passionate about XYZ environmental justice, and I’ve done all these things leading up to now. And so there are different themes that like often reoccur and that’s perfectly fine because even though that theme is something that schools have seen before is always different because it’s coming from a new person who has a new lens and like a new perspective and a new life story.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oftentimes the personal statements that stand out such as personal statements that may start off with a long poem are personal statements that, you know, try to be overly creative, stand out in a bad way. And so I say that to say what’s your personal statement really? Don’t stress too much about trying to do something that a school has never seen before, because it is okay if they have seen a similar personal statement in the past, really just focus on making sure that by the time a school is done reading your personal statement, they have an understanding of who you are and what is driving you to this point of your life. Why it is that you’re deciding to go to law school. Of course, students, you know, typically don’t, and I don’t recommend that they say, I want to go your school because of XYZ and continue your personal statement.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
But by the things that you talk about, a school should be able to pull out. The student is interested in civil rights law, students interested in business law. And even if you don’t have the language or terminology law school admissions officers do, because they usually are lawyers themselves and they know the different areas of law. And so trying to just talk about, you know, what is leading you to go to law school? What has gotten you to this point and don’t be too stressed about, you know, possibly writing a personal statement that’s similar to someone else’s personal statement. That is okay.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah. When you said poem, I said, you can do that. That sounds so weird. Okay. All right. I hear so many students say I’m a splitter, I’m a splitter. And then when they give their numbers, you know, to me, some of them are not really splitters, you know? So what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah. So a splitter means that one of your numbers is at, or above a school’s median, LSAT or GPA and the other number isn’t. So that is what it means to law schools. I have been on Reddit at however, and I know that Reddit uses splitter versus reverse splitter. And then Reddit language splitter is someone whose LSAT score is at or above a schools median and a splitter is someone whose GPA is at or above a school’s median. And the other number isn’t. But for law schools, a splitter is really just, you have at least one of the median numbers.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Okay. Yeah. And is there any type of thing that a student should do to, if they are a splitter to explain themselves or help their application?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Splitter should know actually is that usually the majority of students that get into law schools are splitters. And so you are in a good position of you’re a splitter. Of course, if your GPA is low or your LSAT score is low and you have an explanation everyone doesn’t have an explanation, but if you have like a solid explanation, my GPA is low because I had to work my first and second year or throughout college, or my GPA is low because I start off with a major that, you know, I didn’t actually care about. And, you know, I found a major that was a better fit for me or my LSAT score is low because there was a distraction during my test. They look, if you have an actual explanation, feel free to provide that context either in addendum or on one of those optional questions, if the school has it.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
But elsewise, I would say just keep your fingers crossed because many students, most students that get into schools are splitters. I would say that the doublers, which are the students that have both their LSAT score and their GPA at or above schools median they aren’t necessarily at, they don’t necessarily have a greater likelihood of being admitted to a school. And it’s not that there’s anything wrong with them, but I was explaining to a client the other day who had a friend who had both numbers above a schools median GPA, I think maybe they have both numbers above the 75th percentile actually, and they didn’t get into their dream school and she was freaked out. And she said that, you know, I think it’s because the process is more competitive right now because of all the more applicants.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And I had to tell her, well, this may be an instance where the holistic review process comes into play and, you know, reading letters of recommendation, just because your numbers are great. Doesn’t mean that recommender said great things about you, or maybe, you know, you came off really poorly in your personal statement or you, you know, have some of the qualities that law schools like cringe about some schools, you know, don’t necessarily want students that are going to be gunners, you know, they want students that play well in the sandbox. Then maybe all your other supporting document, like raise red flags. And so being a splitter is okay. Being a doubler doesn’t necessarily mean that you’ll get into a law school. And, you know, having numbers that are at or below the 50th percentile, doesn’t disqualify you from getting into a school.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Wow, scary. Okay. So this question was submitted by Katrina. Katrina, wanted to know what factors are considered when students want to transfer.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
So I did not actually do our transfer process. So that was delegated to someone else in our office while I did the waitlist piece, but talking about transferring that’s something else that takes place there during the summers. Doing transfer for applications and reviewing those and picking candidates from the transfer list. But it’s my understanding that when it comes to transferring a few things that matter are what’s your professors at your 1L law school say about you? Your personal statement is going to be a bit different than your personal statement when you first apply to law school, although you still want to talk about, you know, what it is that is driving you to become a lawyer. At this point, you can talk a bit more too about what it is that you bring to a law school environment or campus.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
And whether you put that in your personal statement or on your resume, those are qualities that, you know, make a difference that are going to matter what you can actually bring. But also in your personal statement for a transfer application, you need to talk about why specifically that school, like why I want to go from school A to school B. So whether it is I really want to practice and LA after graduating. And, you know, I believe that you will give me the best chances of, you know, getting a job here, or I like to recommend that students be a bit more specific about the school itself and the programs that they offer you offer XYZ program, which is the only program in the nation. I really want to be a part of that. Or you offer, you have an amazing environmental law program.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
You have XYZ clinic. You have this professor in this class that I really want to take. So to the extent that you can be very specific about what that school offers, that you probably can’t get elsewhere or what, and what you can offer that school that makes a huge difference. But of course, grades, I will be remiss if I don’t mention your 1L grades matter. You do want to have done well, your 1L year some schools may prefer students that were in the top 10 or top 15% of their class. Other schools may not have any preference. Some schools, I don’t know, schools have cutoffs. I think that usually schools have a preference. But yeah, there definitely are considerations made based on your 1L grades and your LSAT score is looked at it isn’t weighed as heavily.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
But your LSAT score probably does need to be in a range where you could have possibly gone into the law school initially your, for your 1L year, even if, again, you’re like that straggler, how I mentioned on those grids, like, there’s that one person with this, like, LSAT score that you wouldn’t anticipate, but got into the school. Even if you’re like one of those people, like you do want your LSAT score to be within the range where at least someone in the past gone to the school with this LSAT score.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Do transfer students qualify for scholarships?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Typically not as the schools that I’m familiar with. So the one I graduated from and the one I worked at transfer students do not qualify for scholarships from the school itself. I do not know if other schools have exceptions.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
What about if you’re transferring from a non ABA approved school? Do you know how that works?
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I also do not know if you are allowed to transfer from a non ABA approved law school into another law school. I know that that was a big concern. When I was at UCLA, because I believe there was a school at the time that was either shutting down or lost this accreditation. And so there was this flight of students that were trying to find law schools to go to. I do think that it’s possible that if you went to a non ABA accredited school, that you may have to do your 1L year all over.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. I think we’ve covered some good ground today. Thank you so much for joining us today and answering all of these really I think needed and tough questions.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Thank you so much for having me. This has been really fun and thank you everyone for submitting questions.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Before we get into my top takeaways. A quick word from our sponsor, Juno. If you have to take out student loans, check in with Juno first. Juno can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and oftentimes cash back as well. Visit Advisor.Legallearningcenter.com/juno. For more information.
My top takeaways from this chat with Akiesha, number one, your soft factors can really make a difference in your application. Just keep in mind that your GPA and your LSAT score are basically weighed at two thirds of your application. Number two, along those lines, if a school asks optional questions, answer them. Number three waitlists are unpredictable, regularly submitting a letter of continued interest can really help. Number four, transfer students have their own set of application requirements and are basically giving up any money when they change schools.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That’s it for this episode, all of the tips links and so forth will be in the show notes. A full transcript will be available at legallearningcenter.com/askakiesha. And if you enjoy this episode, please leave a review, like, share, comment, subscribe that just makes the show more visible so that those who may need it can see it. Thanks.
