Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the Legal Learning Center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school to receive three money savings strategies today. Visit legallearningcenter.com/money. Now today’s guest is Bianca. Bianca had a pretty rough experience during her 1L year, that’s important for you to hear. Most 1L students have some type of horror story to share, but Bianca’s was a bit worse than most. So with that, let’s check in with Bianca.
Today we are joined by Bianca who’s going to share her legal journey with us. Thanks for joining us. Bianca.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Of course. Thank you so much for reaching out to me. I’m like nervous and excited all at the same time,
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Bianca had a very dramatic Instagram post that really called to me. So I had to have her on for you guys so that you can hear her story and just kind of how just trudging along doing what works for you is okay. You don’t have to meet everyone’s approval. You don’t have to listen to outside factors, just take care of you. So, okay. Bianca, tell us a little bit about your background. Do you come from a family of lawyers? Are you a first gen? What’s your situation?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh, no. I was so jealous of all my fellow colleagues who came from generational attorneys, they knew exactly what to do. I felt so outside the loop. So my background is I come from a single mom. I was raised on the west side of San Antonio, so a predominantly poor neighborhood. But she worked her way up and is now like a COO of an international law firm. So my gosh, she set the pace for me. She did not let me give up on myself and always reminded me that like, if she could go back to undergrad 15 years later with a six year old child and working as a full-time parent, that I could do anything. So unfortunately I did not have any excuse to just be lazy. She would not take that. And then also her parents were migrant farm workers, so they had a fifth and a third grade level education; to them education with everything. And they had 13 kids and they pushed all of them to at least finish high school. So out of those 13, my mom and my uncle are the only two with undergrad degrees.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So when did you start law school?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I started law school in 2018. So I graduated undergrad 2017, took a year off and I worked with the rape crisis center. So I was a crisis intervention specialist. I loved that work. That was my dream to like do something I was so passionate about before law school. And to me that was helping other survivors of sexual assault. So I got to work in the field that I wanted to go into, which then just like propelled me into law school. Cause I was like, okay, well these people need a lot of help in the legal aspect because no one’s advocating for them. So I’m going to put that burden on my shoulders and go into law school and burn it all down and be that champion.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah. I’m a big proponent of gap years and even just one, it just makes a big difference in your perspective. And that’s so great that you were able to do something like that. That is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I have no idea how people go right into law school. I feel like I would have burned out. I know a lot of friends who did that. Yeah. I personally, I would have absolutely burnt out. I would not have done well at all.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I agree. I think your brain needs a mental break. I think you need to learn a different set of skills as well. And there’s so many skills that you learn just being low man on the totem pole. So what some of your potential clients might be like in the future when they’re low man on the totem pole working in a different industry, just you get so many different perspectives that you learn and, and then again, you get that break. You get free time when you go home from work, most of the time, those types of jobs that you have right after college let you go home from work, you know? So unlike law. So yeah. Were you a full-time student?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yes. Yes. I was a full-time student.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So how did you feel the first few weeks went for you?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
The first few weeks? Oh my God. I think it’s like the repression of the three years. Like how did that go now? I mean, I was very fortunate to meet friends easily. I was at my law school day section C. So it was like section A, B and C. So I was in section C, shout out if anyone’s listening. We were like the hippies of the law group. So all of us wanted to do public interest or like government. And we were like the very nice bunch that other law students could come to for help. And like, we weren’t like the other sections who would hide books that everyone needed for an assignment.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I hate that. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
But no, my first few weeks I think it was a lot of reading and tears. And what did I get myself into? Because none of this makes sense. I’m having a dictionary opened up on Google, just like, okay, now what does that word exactly mean?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, it’s really overwhelming. You learn a lot in a very short period of time and there’s no way to describe just how much you learn.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
I mean, compared to undergrad or anything else that you do up until that point law school and like undergrad or, I mean could be depending on the subject, but it’s like, you have to understand this concept to understand the next concept that comes after it because they’re all interrelated at the end of the day. And so that was so hard for me to be like, okay, but I don’t understand this subject. And then being so nervous to even go talk to a law professor, cause you’re like, oh, they’re so intimidating though.
I will say I do have a story from my first day of law school that I will never forget and that I do tell everyone.
Speaker 1
Do share.
Speaker 2
Okay. So I have a professor named professor Peter. He wouldn’t mind me using his name. He’s the sweetest little man that there is like, he is my torts professor and it was first day, first class ever of law school. I’m like sitting down in the front row, like ready to start my day. And this man comes in and he’s just yelling. And all of us are terrified because they were like, what just happened? And he gets a large bottle of hand sanitizer, you know, and he puts it on the floor and he kicks it across the room and he’s like, and that was an assault because they didn’t see it coming. And all of a sudden like.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Oh my gosh, that’s sounds so weird.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I know it’s so weird. But honestly, that professor was, he was my biggest champion throughout law school. He was so vulnerable with us and he was also first-generation college, first-generation law student, or now attorney, he went to Harvard was like graduated top in his class in law school and was just like so humble about it because he was like, I shouldn’t have been there, I was a fetal alcohol syndrome baby. Like I went through all these very traumatic tragedies in life. He’s like, so if I can do it and stand up here and be your law professor, like law school, isn’t the worst thing that you’ve ever endured through your life. He was like, and you need to hold on to that. Do not let law school become bigger than you are. So he was, he was the best part of law school.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That’s so great that they had him teaching a 1L subject so that you guys could have that exposure right away. Then did you take any 0L courses to prepare?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I did not. I think I got that book, like 1L of a ride and that’s all I did to prepare. Cause I was like I don’t know what I’m going into, but I did not take any 0L classes.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Okay. So you went in blind, which a lot of us do?
Speaker 2
Yes. I didn’t know there were 0L courses before I went to law school. So I did a little reading, but yeah.
Speaker 1
Okay. And then did you take advantage of office hours of your professors?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I did not throughout my three years and I should have, I think the only professor I felt comfortable talking to was my first year professor, my torts professor, because he was, I don’t know. I felt like he was just the most authentic professor that I had, that I wasn’t scared to talk to you. And he was also the professor that I went to whenever I would have really bad days and just be like, I don’t think I belong here. I don’t think I fit in like, what am I doing? And he’s written me two letters of recommendation. So I’m just like in puddle of tears over. Cause he’s like, she’s going to be the best attorney, best advocate. I know. And I’m like, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Nice. Yeah, no it’s, they are scary. And especially you’re going to office hours usually because you don’t know something you don’t understand. And so it’s hard to admit in this competitive environment that you don’t know or understand something. So I’m with you. I wish I had taken better advantage of them. I never went to any so yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
No. And I’m definitely the stubborn hard-headed person. Who’s like, I will die on my cross figuring it out. I will YouTube it. I will do whatever I need to do, but going into office hours terrifies me. Yeah. I’m with you on that one too.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well, I know you had a negative experience with a professor in your 1L year as well. So why don’t you tell us about that one?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yes. So God. Okay. So for those of y’all who have been to law school before, I know you definitely understand this in civil procedure, there is something called the Erie doctrine, which none of us understand, or maybe some of us, but I did not understand it. And it’s one of like the notoriously hard civil procedure cases. And this professor, basically, if you did bad on a cold call, she needed to see your notes because she needed to know what you did to prepare for her class or else. And if your notes weren’t up to standard, she was going to count you absent. And at my law school, we could only have three absences per class without being deducted or grade or being like failing that class. So it was like a very, like you’re going to count me absent even though I was here thing so I got called for the Erie doctrine.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And the night before I had spent five hours reading through that darn case, did not understand a word of what it was. I still think, I don’t understand the concept fully, but I just did absolutely horrible in that cold call. I could not tell her what the procedural Pastore meant. I could not tell her what the holding was. I could not tell her anything because I genuinely did not understand the case itself. And I mean, I guess maybe that’s an example of when I should have gone to office hours to be like, Hey, I really don’t understand what’s going on here. But she was also a very scary law professor. She was terrifying to everyone. So I did really bad and our civil procedure class was two hours. So we had a 10 minute break in between. So I did really bad; flustered on the whole cold call.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And I, I guess for like, at least my first year, I was very scared of public speaking. And I think this is that also attribute to being first gen and like not really believing in your own voice. So I was scared. I was fumbling over my words. It was just, it was the biggest train wreck that you could imagine. I want to say like legally blonde, whenever the professor just grilled her, it was like that. And no idea what was going on up in here. So during our break I was like, okay, you know what? I do not want to stay after class to show this lady my notes. Let me just get it done during my break. So I went up to her and I was like, look, I read, I promise you. I read, I just don’t understand any of this. I was like, these are my notes.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Like I’ve looked on Lexus to like try and find more background info to like kind of break down the holdings, things like that. And I was like, honestly, I just don’t understand it that well. And then she was like, looking over my notes, looking through my book, seeing all the highlights and little notes that I had made. And she just turned to me with like a stone-cold look and said, well, Miss Ibarra, if this is how your notes look, you can expect not to be here next semester and cue the tears. Cause I am an angry crier. So I was like, oh, okay. And I got my book and I got my laptop and I put them down where I was sitting. And unfortunately I did sit at like the front of the class for that class too. So I put it down, went to the bathroom, cried during the break, during the remainder of the break. I think I still had like five to seven minutes. So just absolutely puddle of tears wiped my face, like tried to calm down because I get very red whenever I cry. So like I had red all over my face and like, I just sat down with my head down for the next hour of this class.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
And then I left and I cried some more in my car and I got bangs. That’s how traumatic it was for me. I got bangs after.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So first of all, I think a very inappropriate thing for someone who is supposed to be helping you learn to say yeah. I, yeah, I can’t even imagine having that professor. I think we all have our horror stories of professors that either seem mean or are mean, but to actually directly say that to you, it’s just unimaginable. I can’t even imagine, what I would do myself. So what did you do after that?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Honestly, I just, I cried to one of my mentors who is an attorney at where my mom works. So she was the one who helped me with all my law school application. And I was just like, Natalie, I don’t think I’m cut out. Really. I was like, I don’t think I’m meant to be here. Like, I, I’m not smart enough for this. Like everyone’s smarter than me. Cause I mean, you hear your other classmates do really, really well on cold calls. And like for someone who’s, who was, (cause now I got over that. I was on the ADR team so I had to speak in public all the time) but who was like really scared to speak in public and like already intimidated. It was so hard for me. And I just cried like, luckily that class, I think, I think that happened like on a Thursday.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So I didn’t have to see her again for like the next Tuesday. So I was just like really, really sad about it. And luckily I had my mentor to be like, well, you know, honey, this law school, like, I’m sorry, but you will continue to have these experiences. She’s like, but remember why you went there in the first place, remember all those survivors that you helped that made you, I don’t know. Cause I never promised anyone, anything. I will say that, but I will say I was fueled with rage to be like, I have to go to law school. I have to do this because there were too many cases getting swept under the rug and I want to be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. And so she constantly reminded me that she’s like, you were supposed to be the solution. Remember if not you who else? And I got up the next day, frickin, Quimbee paid for Quimbee to try and figure it out. And I kept going. And at the end of my first semester, I made top 15%.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And I think that’s such a good example of how one circumstance doesn’t mean that’s who you are, you know, whether it’s one mistake or just one misunderstanding or one fumble. I mean, I wouldn’t even call that a fumble that’s what happens. It happens all the time. I mean, there was an assignment I remember from torts class that I didn’t understand. And when I got to class, it turned out nobody else understood it either. And the torts professor called on someone and they said, you know, I just, I didn’t really understand this. And she got kind of angry. So she called on somebody else and they said the same thing. And she called on like three or four people. And they also at the same thing, we just really didn’t understand this assignment or this case or whatever. And, and then she turned to us and instead of like, just explaining the situation, she said, you know, if you guys don’t do the work and she went on some kind of rant and it was like, wait a minute, there’s four people that just told you they didn’t get it. And believe me, those of us who you didn’t call on, didn’t get it either. Like, you know, we’ve been doing all the assignments this whole semester. Why would you think today’s the day we didn’t do the work? You know, it’s very frustrating. We all have those circumstances and yeah, it’s really important to remember one situation, one thing where you didn’t understand, you’re not alone and it doesn’t define you. You’re a bigger person than that one thing.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Definitely. And I remember my classmates, like afterwards being like, honestly, everyone in there was holding their fingers that they did not get called on for that case because no one understood it. They’re just like, literally everyone was sitting there today being like, please do not call on me for this. Like please God, whoever do not let this be my day. Yeah. And so, I mean, and I think what it also showed me at the end of that first semester being that high ranking was a lot of my classmates who did really, really great on cold calls, didn’t perform that well on the test. So just because someone does great on cold calls does not mean that they’re smarter than you or that they know more than you. Sometimes people are just really good at bullshitting. And I think that’s like what I learned the hard way. Cause I’m like, oh, you didn’t understand that case at all. And they’re like, no, I’m like, how do I have that confidence? I want that. Like I was over here believing everything that was coming out of your mouth.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Yes. It’s so true. We all have different skill sets. Some of us can not write an essay to save our lives. It’s very difficult and some of us can not public speak and, and law school is there to teach you a little bit of all of that. So yeah, you will develop those skills. That’s what it’s there for. So, okay. So you said top 15%. And so what did you end up doing? Tell me about your extracurricular activities and other things that you did throughout the rest of your law school experience.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
So I was on a journal in law school, also to anyone who’s in law school being on a journal does not mean that you’re better than anyone else or you’re more prestigious. It’s just there was a journal for race and social justice that I really wanted to be a part of. So like if you ever get denied for being on journal, like do not let that be your end all be all, you do not need to be on journal to have a successful career. It does not make you a better attorney. It does not make you a better writer. Those things come with putting in the work and the effort. And you said ADR,
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And you said ADR, just to make sure people understand what that is. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what that stands for?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, it’s the alternative dispute resolution team. So a lot of negotiations, mediation, arbitration, client counseling, my coach was the absolute best. So she had a full-time job up in Austin and is on the hill working for human trafficking and sexual assault survivors. She’s an all around badass. And then she would spend her Saturdays with us driving all the way down here, spending her full Saturday just to teach us these vital skills. And honestly, I feel like that’s the only reason I’m semi prepared to be an attorney because she really did teach us how to communicate effectively, which is something that you really, really needed a lawyer. And I saw it a lot whenever I was a student attorney for my criminal clinic. So I did defense work and I saw that a lot with some of my other peers who were maybe on like mock trial team or didn’t have any experience before, but they didn’t know how to effectively communicate with their clients.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
And they were really horrible at client counseling. And I think I just, I lucked out not only being on the alternative dispute resolution team, but I also had a job at a nonprofit. And so my work was like doing a lot of intakes for different fields of law. So anywhere from like a big actions to divorces to domestic violence, I did a lot of civil law and like employment law. So it’s like, I had to be really good at spotting. Whenever your client is telling you a story, they don’t know what the legal issue is there. They just know that they have a problem and it’s your job as an attorney to figure out, okay, like what problem do you have and what facts do I need to solve your problem? So I think doing that for like a whole year, just talking to everyone from different races, different income levels, different law issues really helped me be able to like, okay, like you’re talking about this. So it’s probably going to be more of a property issue. And I feel like, I don’t know, maybe I just have the personality to talk to people. Some people I go to law school with just are not great at social interaction.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
There’s a reason there’s different types of law. You know, some people need to work with corporations or whatever, and some people really are good with, let me hold your hand and figure out what you need and are also good at manipulating that situation where it’s like, okay, we’re not spending 10 hours discussing what you need, but let’s get the facts so that I can get on with helping you. And so, yeah, that’s a great skill to have and yet not everybody has that. And yeah, again, like you said, there are different people that go into law school. Everyone has different skill sets and we need all the people we need. You know, we need people like you, we need people that are not you, you know, to do all the different representations that are out there. And yeah, going back to that professor and how overwhelming that must have been to hear something so harsh. I don’t know if she came from a perspective of, we should only have people who are on it 24/7, like they just know everything. Or if she was trying to play some kind of devil’s advocate kind of thing, where it’s like, if I crumble you down, you’re either going to rise above or crumple and get out of the game. But that’s a risky tactic.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think so too. And I know I’m not the first law student to do this to. She told one of my really good friends. You have an 80% chance of never passing the bar and never becoming an attorney. Like whenever she was like, she went to her for advice and like, that’s what she came out with. So she’s kind of notorious for doing things like that, which is very unfortunate. But I will say, I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie Selena about Selena, played by J-Lo that when, so I did have my, we don’t need the dress moment. This past year she had to give me an award because I won a woman in law leadership award this year. And she had the, oh my gosh, like, this is my moment for you told me I was going to fail out my first semester. Look at me now I’m about to graduate and you have to give me an award. That’s great in your face. It was a very written TV. I texted my husband. I was like, ha ha.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
That’s so great. Cause we can move on. And we can have our rewards and things like that. But again, did that person see me get the reward? Did they see me overcome? And maybe not. So she had to face it. She had to see now how much she remembered of what she told you is all another thing. Because apparently she just dishes it out. But that is, yeah. That’s awesome. And so, okay, so you just graduated this year, right?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yes. I graduate on Saturday. I’m officially done with law school!
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh my gosh. Okay. And so now it’s just bar study time, right?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah. I think being in a pandemic and staying home for a whole year has made that very, very hard for me because now I’m like, I’m studying from home, but my couch is right there. So instead of lunch I could take a nap.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Do not do that. I had a friend do that. I would call her to ask her a question and she would be taking a nap. I’m like, what are you doing? And she did not pass. So don’t do that.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Don’t take a nap. Got it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I want to make sure if you have any overall advice for students who are about to enter law school. Cause I know they are probably terrified. I mean they’ve probably heard horror stories themselves and then yeah, you’ve got your lovely kicking the bucket thing on the first day and then like, which is just so freakish. I mean, when your first day you’re already terrified and you’re like, what’s going on in here. And then having that lovely lady give you a lovely review of your situation. Is there anything advice for them that would help them prepare, feel calmer or more like they belong.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Be authentic to yourself. You are going to be surrounded by other people who you may think are a lot smarter than you, but I promise, I promise they will never bring to the table what you can. So be a hundred percent authentic to the person you are. I like to say I am a very non-traditional law student. I have a full sleeve of tattoos. I was very rebellious. I was an editor of a law journal, but I was still a very rebellious editor. I never let that fierceness of the person I am or the little girl that came from the hood. As I like to say, I never let her go. And because I never let her go. I was able to find very genuine friends and very supportive people who understood where I came from and wanted to see me rise and just do nothing but thrive. And the people that you meet in law school that do become your friends. They are your lifers. You will not let them go. They are the people who you can talk to on your worst days, who probably don’t understand the same cases as you, who will be your best friends, but you can only find them if you’re being a hundred percent who you are.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
And it’s so true, you already feel like you have this imposter syndrome being there and trying to do your best. And if you are also this imposter in your personality and with the people you meet, you just, you’re going to sink yourself. You’re going to doom yourself. You know, even if you succeed, you’re still dooming yourself internally in your soul. So that is just the best advice. I love that. Bianca, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for taking time out of your bar prep, to give everyone your story and your advice. It is so appreciated. And I think so needed by these law students and pre-law students.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, definitely. I’m really glad I could be here, but if you want to go to law school, that’s all it takes. You want it, you got it like Ariana Grande’s says. But definitely remember why you started, keep that, hold onto it. I have it plastered in front of me. Like I am ____. I started this journey because ____, I’m going to do well on bar prep because ____, I’m going to pass the bar because _____, I never let that waver because you are there for a reason.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Before we get into my top takeaways, a quick word from our sponsor Juno. If you have to take out student loans, check in with Juno first. Juno can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and cash back as well. Visit advisor.legalearning center.com/Juno. For more information, my top takeaways from this chat with Bianca one, she thought she was not smart enough and ended up in the top 15% of her class. So if you feel this way, just know you’re not alone. And it doesn’t mean anything. Number two, you never know how you’re going to stack up against the other students. Some are great with homework, reading, repeating, discussing, but can not convey that on essay exam. So if you’re having trouble with public speaking, don’t worry. That’s not an indicator of how you’re going to do on the tests. And you will develop that skill. Number three, be authentic. No one else can bring to the table. What you do. That’s it for this episode, all the tips and so forth will be in the show notes. A full transcript will be available at legallearningcenter.com/Bianca. If you enjoyed this episode and learned something today, please like, share, comment, leave a review. So this show is more visible and can help those who may need it. Thanks.
