Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the Legal Learning Center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school, to receive three money-saving strategies today. Visit legallearningcenter.com/money. Today, Laura is going to share her journey as a mom in law school. As she approaches her last semester of law school stay tuned as she shares some of the hard aspects of that situation and some marital advice as well. Today, we are joined by Laura. Who’s going to share her experience as a mom and law student. Laura, thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
All right. I’m going to take you back to the very beginning. How many children do you have? I have two. Okay. And how old were they when you applyed to law school?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
My daughter is the youngest. She’s 13 now. So I’ve been in law school for three years, so she was 10 and then my son is 16, so 13.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Okay. All right. So how did you prepare for law school that year? Leading up to it? Were there things that you set in place to make sure your kids were taken care of and just your household so that you could enter law school confidently?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Okay. So for me personally I do, I did have already a strong support system at home, so I’m married, so my husband and also my mom lives with me. So that really helped me a lot, a lot.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
That is great. Cause I tell people have, if you have kids, you should have two people, two backups, whether, whether it’s a daycare and a person or two people, you need more than just one person.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, especially because my husband is also a business owner, so the fact that we have my mom there. Yes, that helps a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Okay. And so did you apply for a part-time or full-time program?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
When I initially started, it was a part-time it was a part-time program because I was also working.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
So you were working during the day and going to school at night? Yes. Okay. So let’s talk about that first semester. How did your first couple of weeks go?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So they, every law school I believe has orientation, even when you enter college, you have orientation. So we first went to orientation and it was a Saturday, it was like a whole day kind of thing. And I remember being in orientation and just kind of thinking, what did I do? You know, like, oh my God, why am I doing this? And why did I do it? Because at orientation, the Dean said, as of today you have no friends, you have no kids, you have no family, you have nothing. It’s just you and your books. And like, they meant that they were not playing. So it, it kind of sits on you, you know, like what did I do? You know, like it was scary.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
It is scary. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
My first week was like that. It was just having that feeling of what did I do?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
How did your kids handle the fact that you were kind of missing?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
My son, specially he’s a teenager. Right? So he was also going through all those changes and everything. So, but he’s told me at times like, Hey mom, you know, like, why are you going to school right now? You know, you should already have done this prior to us having kids, you know, prior to you having kids. So it’s very tough when your son or your daughter tells you something like that, it creates some kind of guilt. But in the same way, I would try to explain it to him, I say, even if you become a doctor or whatever you become, there’s always continuing education. So you’re always learning. Learning actually never stops. So that’s the way I try to explain to him, like, you know, this is just me trying to go to the next level. And you don’t understand that right now, but maybe when you grow up, you’re going to know that there’s always something new to learn. So, but it was hard for him. It was hard for me to, it was hard for me to hear him say something like that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
They always want your attention. You’re the mommy. And it’s hard to not give them that attention.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That’s something very important. I don’t think he made it like, you know, to make me feel anything. I think he made it to, because he wants my attention. He’s like, I don’t want you to be in law school. Like I want you to be with me.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, definitely. I can hear that too. Okay. So when did you study, what was your schedule like in your first semester?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I live in San Diego. My school is in Santa Ana, so I had a drive there. But my first semester I only had to drive one day and that was Wednesdays. So usually my schedule was like in the morning, I used to work from like 10 to 3:00 PM and then I picked up the kids from school. I cook for them. I kind of took a nap just to disconnect from work environment and then kind of shift into like, okay, now I have to study. So maybe I studied from, from like six to nine, 10, you know, because most of the thing you’re doing is reading, reading cases. Yeah. It is a lot of reading, reading.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
That’s fortunate. Your school was only one day a week at that time?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yes, because two of my classes were online.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
And that is a long commute for those, not from the Southern California area. That is, I would say a minimum of an hour, but during normal times, I would say more like maybe two hours.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I make an hour and a half.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I mean, at night, I’m sure you can probably get home in an hour at 10 o’clock at night or whatever, but at six o’clock or whatever, it’s a lot longer.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
When the day that I do went to class I had to leave San Diego by 1:00 PM to be there at three for class. I started at 6:00 PM because even if I left at three, I wouldn’t make it because of traffic. So I had to plan to leave San Diego at 1:00 PM.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah. I used to do a similar thing in my morning commute, even though it was a lot closer, same thing though, that you had to leave super early or you wouldn’t make it there. Okay. And did you study weekends?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yes. Yes. So, so I, they, the school tried to say, you know you do have to have your Sabbath, you know, it’s up to you what day you want to designate as your Sabbath. You know, if you want to do it Monday, whatever day you want to do, but you do have to do a day just for you, your family, and nothing else. So it’s you back then, once you had that every other day was studying in school or whatever you needed to do.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Now, did you find that your kids complied with that or did they interrupt you a lot when you were trying to study at night? How did that work?
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah. And they will sometimes just come in and be like Hey mom, like, can you make me a quesadilla? Or, you know, like, yes, they will tend to interrupt you. And you’re like let me just finish this case. So sometimes you will have to be like, okay, give me five minutes or give me 10 minutes. But yes, you kind of have to stop and just give them five minutes of attention.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I know you said that you would pick them up from school. So what hours was your husband working?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Because he does air conditioning. The summer time. He can come home at 2:00 AM. So I was always picking up the kids. So we, we made it work, so I have to tell him, okay, this is my schedule. Like that day don’t call me. You don’t have a mom. You don’t have a wife. You guys don’t know me. Like when it was a Wednesday for my first semester. So they knew the Wednesday. They didn’t know me. They’re not supposed to call me.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Okay. And did you have to take summer school?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah, I’ve always done summer school because my program started as a part-time. So it was required that I do like summer. So I’ve never taken more than a week break between semesters.
Speaker 1:
Okay. That sounds exhausting.
Speaker 2:
Like I’m done. I’m like ready. I’m supposed to be graduating in December and I’m like done.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And usually that week isn’t even a full week. Right. Because you have homework before your first day of school?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yes, so you go from stressing about finals and then you kind of like think. Oh, okay. I have a free week, but then you’re also thinking I better get my reading done for the next, the next classes.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So I know at some point you actually switched over to full-time. When was that?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It’s fall 2020. I am full-time.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So did you do two full years or one year of the part-time?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So my first two, were part-time and then my third year was full-time and then, so I was supposed to complete everything four years because I was part-time. So now I’m completing it in three and a half, because of that change.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That’s great. Okay. So what made you switch over to full-time?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
There were some electives which I thought, I can handle an elective, which I don’t know if it was a good decision. My full-time semesters were very hard for me.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Were you still working while you did that?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, but I’ve been working like part-time, so it’s been like, you know, 20 hours, 30 hours. And the good thing is that I had very flexible employers. So let’s say that one day, I’m just like, okay, I need to be in Santa Ana, I’m not coming in. So they’re, they’re very flexible with me. So that has helped.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
That’s really nice. That’s really great. Okay. While you were part-time and going to school at night, were you able to participate in any extracurricular activities at school?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
No, it wasn’t until last semester that I did moot court, but no, I didn’t participate in any other clubs.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Okay. And so you said you were going to work part-time, school full-time and you did Moot court. Is that right? Oh my gosh. Okay. So that sounds really busy and you’re a mom.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You get chosen, you get that offer. So it was for you to get that offer. It’s like, you have to do it. Like you cannot pass on the opportunity. It’s not mandatory. Obviously you can turn it down. But for me what I want to do is being in front of the judge. So for me, it was very important because I wanted to be in front of the judge and practice. So when that offer was made to me last semester, even though I was taking four classes. I couldn’t pass on it. So what’s the best decision. It was hard. It was very hard.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah. That sounds like a lot of work. That’s really impressive.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
But I made it through, so I didn’t die. So I made it through the semester. I thought I will die.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Now were there other times where you just felt like something was, it was unmanageable, like having the kids and having the school, it was just a little too chaotic. And is there something you wish you had maybe known beforehand?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I guess the reading, you know, I don’t know if you understand how much reading there is, like it’s reading, you’re reading the whole day. Sometimes you find yourself reading two or three times the same case, because you’re like, okay, what is the same? What is, so the material is very advanced, very hard. It’s reading and reading and reading. Like you got nothing else to do. You’re reading about a hundred pages per week per class. So that means that if you’re a full-time student and you’re taking, I was, you know, a part-time I was taking three classes. So that means I was reading about 300 pages a week. If you’re a full-time. So you’re looking at about 500 pages per week of challenging subjects.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yes. Very dry. Not necessarily interesting.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
No, sometimes, but not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
You know? So you might, you may be more like criminal law. That’s interesting. Right? It’s a crime and there’s like a story, so it’s okay. You know, this is interesting what happened here, but then you’re learning about property or contracts and you’re like, no, no.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
It’s so true. And I think contracts is probably one of the most useful subjects that you can use for the rest of your life, no matter what you do, but you know, just reading contracts, anything like that. But it’s at the same time, the subject where you just want to fall asleep.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah. I mean, there’s a time where your brain, you can continue reading but your brain is no longer observing anything. Like you need to identify that when that happens, because that’s when you need to take a break.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Good advice. Yeah. It’s very true because you know, you have so much more to go, so you just keep pushing, but it’s not productive. So yeah. You gotta know when to stop. Okay. Well, I really appreciate you coming on here, sharing your story. Is there any last words of wisdom? I know you gave us some really good advice for overall, just the reading and take breaks. Any other advice that you have for parents thinking about going back to law school?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It’s very important that they do have two persons, two individuals helping them and if they can have more ,do it, do it because you’re going to need it. I think you can do it. You know, I think it’s doable, but it’s not easy. And don’t come thinking like, oh yeah, I’m a great reader. I can do this. No, no, it’s challenging, but it’s not impossible. You’re gonna be able to do it, but don’t come thinking that, oh yeah, sure. I’m going to do it. You know, this is going to be a piece of cake because it’s not going to be up to you. You do have to give up, you know, like my first two years I’d been not have social media at all. Like I had to give it up.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Even when I reopen it, like a few months ago like I try not to look at it. Know you’re, you’re married. You need to understand that your husband has to be sensible to identify when, even if you don’t tell him he needs to be sensible or the people around you to say like, you need me to bring your coffee because they’re not gonna just tell you. In the long run, it’s gonna create a problem because you think like I’m doing all this for my family and they don’t care. Or so you have to have a support system, that’s sensible when you’re not talking.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I know exactly what you mean. I lived with my dad when I started law school and I didn’t eat dinner for the first month because I just went home and I studied until I went to bed and I lost 10 pounds in the first month. And my mom found out and yelled at my dad feed her!
Speaker 1 (18:33):
All of a sudden I’d be studying and a burrito would be next to me, all of a sudden. And yeah, if it’s there, I’ll eat it. But I just felt like I couldn’t take a break, you know? So I just, wasn’t going to get up and cook and eat. And so, I had breakfast and lunch, cause that was like, Hey, granola bar on the way out the door and lunch during the lunch break. But I didn’t take a break after that.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
My husband, that was one of the problems. And I think it can be a lot of problems for husbands, you know, because, I think woman can be more caring. Like we can be like, what do you need? Like, can I help you. Men can be like, whatever, you know, I’m going to sleep. You can take care of yourself. The house isn’t burning down. The kids are sleeping. You need someone to be sensible to be like, even if you’re not hungry to be like, do you need something? And you’re going to need that. You’re going to need that.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
For sure. That is really, really good advice. Save the marriage.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
All right. Well thank you again for joining us today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Oh, thank you for inviting me. I hope it helps, but you can do it. I think you can do it and just push forward and, you’ll be fine. You’ll be fine.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Before we get into my top takeaways, a quick word from our sponsor, Juno. If you have to take out student loans, check in with Juno first, Juno can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and oftentimes cash back as well. Visit advisor.legallearningcenter.com/juno. For more information, my top takeaways from this chat with Laura – reading, there is a lot of it, a hundred pages per class per week. That sounds very accurate to me from my recollection. The difference between undergrad and law school is you buy big books for both of them, but in law school, you actually read them cover to cover. And when you realize that the information is no longer going in, it’s important to take a break.
Number two, to save your marriage or any relationship, let your family know in advance that you’re going to need them to check in. You are going to be so busy studying. You’re not even going to realize you haven’t eaten or that you need water. And it would be really nice if they could just check in on you from time to time, see if you need anything, even if you’re not asking for it.
All right, that’s it. For this episode, all the tips links and so forth will be in the show notes. A full transcript will be available@legallearningcenter.com/laurae. And if you learn something today, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review that helps this show to help more students. Thanks
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