Part of our practical tips series
0:00:00.3 S1: Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene, and with the Legal Learning Center, I help pre-law students and law students with their legal journey. Today we will chat with Lindsey of World-Wise Tutoring about executive functioning and how those skills can help you manage Law School.
0:00:22.6 S1: Afterwards, I’ll give you my top takeaways, but first, a quick word from our sponsor, Financially Free Aspiring Attorneys is a course with over $300,000 in money-saving tips if you wanna go to law school, but you don’t wanna pay for it, visit legallearningcenter.com/financially-free for more information on how you can avoid law loans.
S2: So I’m Lindsey Wander, and I am the founder and CEO of World Wise Tutoring, and recently also the founder and president of my non-profit Educate Radiate Love.
S1: I am definitely going to ask you about both of those things in a moment, but I know today we are here to talk about executive functions. So first, what are executive functions?
S2: So the executive functions basically describe the skills and capabilities of being able to manage daily life, you can think of it as the executive of a company, so it’s almost like the part of your brain that’s the CEO of the brain that is delegating tasks and planning and prioritizing, organizing and just making sure that all of the parts of your daily life were getting done, whether it’s making sure laundry and dishes are done, or it’s completing an assignment on time or breaking that down.
So it’s really just the part of your brain that handles Get Stuff Done part.
S1: Okay, and now this is something that your tutoring company covers…
S2: Oh yeah, because even if students have not been flagged as having issues with executive functions, I have found that most children, even a lot of adults really need some help with these skills, especially because they’re not directly taught. So for instance, the idea of having a big project and breaking it down to smaller tasks and having those due dates, that kind of stuff is not taught, and so we definitely need to cover that because it’s often one reason why students have lower grades.
S1: And that is super important for students in their 1st year of law school, because there is no time to mess around. Everything is very tight. So what are some time management or organizational skills that you can recommend people kind of start practicing before they get into such a tight situation?
S2: So one of the things that we work with our students on, and I actually also do in my personal life, is to plan and prioritize, so taking all of the tasks that you have to, let’s say that week and writing that down, even a student that’s in a lower grade, maybe the tasks that are due tomorrow, and then estimating how long each of those tasks will take you, whether it’s, This is gonna take me just a couple of hours to get done, or This is gonna take me several weeks to get the estimating kind of a timeframe. And then prioritizing them. When it comes to our younger students, I let them choose whichever ways they wanna prioritize, it might be, I wanna get the boring stuff out of the way first, so I wanna do the fun stuff first, whatever it might be, but for us, adults are using for prioritizing evolving which one has to get done first, or Which one requires the biggest time commitment, and so putting them in order of priority and working your way through with an idea of how long each one will take is really key. We kind of already do this as adults now, if a meeting ends early and you have 10 minutes, do you think… What can I do with those 10 minutes and you might check your email or you might send off the quick form where you know as kids, you might have used that time to just play on our phone or whatever, and even as adults, maybe that 10 minutes can be a stretch break. Or get up and have a meal. But you know, you have a certain amount of time. Same thing is something that we work on with our students. Having them, in addition to have planning and prioritizing, also have a list of things up when I time. So if you do end up having an extra couple of hours a day, these are the things that aren’t super huge priorities that you wanna try to get them done. I have that personally myself, my little list here of, Hey, when you have time, do that, but then my prioritized list is here, this is to get done today. So all of that comes from just basically planning it out in advance.
S1: Are there certain… Whether it’s paper or apps, things that tend to work well for those people.
0:05:16.7 S2: Personally, and everyone thinks I’m crazy for this. I write everything down, I have my calendar here, which is broken up in increments and I write everything out like that, but I have a lot of other students and even my friends who prefer to use more of the electronic means. There are some really good apps for younger kids that parents can actually have and you can all have one account where the parent can schedule certain things in and the student can see if the child can see it, but there’s also a lot of good ones for adults as well, where it helps them not just as a calendar with scheduling, but also again, with planning, prioritizing and breaking things down into more manageable tasks with specific debates.
0:06:05.5 S1: I think that’s where it’s confusing is a lot of people are okay with a calendar, but then when you start adding in all the to-dos, it starts to get confusing and your calendar can get too crowded so that you do start missing things, and a calendar isn’t always the best place to put different level of projects. Again, the short and the fast the long and the hard and all those things, and if you don’t get to it on the one day, do you then do you re-write it the next day? So it’s definitely, I think, two different things. So yeah, I like this idea, a calendar, a to-do list, right?
0:06:44.7 S2: And there are some times I write reminders to myself in my calendar, for example, if I have a client and they say, check back with me at the end of January. I will use my calendar to have a little note at the bottom or in the corner, remember to check in with so-and-so, but that’s just because it’s so far in the future that, like you said, getting on it to do this… What do I do have to keep moving it across and over and over, and I may forget to do it at that particular time frame, so when it’s something that has a longer projection where you’re not touching it for a while, that’s where it would be good in a calendar. But it’s something you need to get done today. I have in one list, it’s something that’s more long-term, might maybe have another list or again, something that can be done, just fill in time and you have the extra space with not a huge priority, and I would have that separate.
0:07:38.2 S1: Are there certain tips or tricks to almost trick our brain or retrain our brain if we do have executive functioning issues…
0:07:48.9 S2: I mean, there are some good apps for this as well, a lot of it… What I have noticed is linked to executive functions is also issues with knowing how to cope with stress, because a lot of our concerns surrounding executive functions links to a feeling of overwhelm and just not even knowing how to start, and that can be from just… I have so many things I need to get done. You almost get into that freeze mode, you fight, flight or you freeze, and just don’t even know where to get started, so additional methodologies to help manage that stress are key, whatever that might be for you, but finding something that works for you. So me personally, it’s exercise, I know when I’m just starting to feel overwhelmed, I have to feel like I have a better handle on things and I go have a really successful workout, and it makes me feel empowered and ready to come back to work. It also just gives my mind a break to refresh, for some people, it might be taking a bath or a shower, there is a reason why in the shower… We come up with great ideas.
0:09:01.9 S2: It’s because all the noise is gone and you’re just kind of in there, and sometimes that’s a nice reset of clearing things out, it might be music, it might be yoga, whatever it is, just kind of having a way of managing that stress and coming back with a fresher mind will allow you to come at it without such a feeling of overwhelm and also probably make you feel more empowered as well.
0:09:27.2 S1: That makes so much sense. I’m super organized, and I mean obviously we all drop balls here and there, but I am super organized, and I know there were times when I was practicing where I would sit down at my desk and I could not move, I couldn’t decide between mail, email, projects, prepping for my next hearing, there were too many things and they were all important and all urgent, and I remember one time I literally said, Just pick something, and so I picked an email and I said, No, no, no, no, no, I must prep for my hearing, fine, I’m picking that. And then I said No, no, no, no, no, I still couldn’t pick, even though I told myself to pick… I use essential oils. And I had never used it for stress management before, but I just happened to bring out the essential oils at that time, had it going, and suddenly, magically I was able to pick what I need to do and I did it, and it was… Until I was a few minutes in that I realized, Whoa, what just happened here, so I think being aware of what helps you with stress and trying new things like that, I didn’t know I was using that for stress necessarily, it is really helpful to get in through that executive functioning, overwhelm.
0:10:48.4 S1: And I never thought of it that way, so I like how you put that. Yeah, I feel like it is a combination of apps, paper, and then knowing yourself as well, I have a lot of people say to me, I breezed through college, I didn’t really need to study, still got the good grades, but in law school, it’s a totally different animal, I don’t know what I’m doing, I’m out of my element. So they have to scramble to figure things out, do you have any tips for somebody to figure stuff out in a hurry…
0:11:24.1 S2: It kind of links to what you just said as well, I think that all too often, we have these lists of things to do, and when one thing is crossed off, we’re already on to the next, and we have a goal set, but once we achieve them, we already have three more in place for it, which is all really good because this is how we move forward, this is how we progress, but I do think it’s important to stop and celebrate those achievements, so the fact that you were able to figure out that essential oil helped you to move forward and then you got something done, there should be an inside celebration of that achievement, because what it then does is set you up to take that kind of risk of finding something new, or it empowers you with the knowledge of… Look, I’ve been in this overwhelm before and I got through it, I’m gonna get through this time as well, so I think that that comes from those small achievements, from those small recognitions and the burst of energy that gives you… So taking time in your day, whether it’s at the end of the day before you go to sleep, or if it’s in the middle when you’re feeling a little burnt out to just stop and say, What have I gotten done today, what was I successful…
0:12:41.7 S2: That’s really motivating it almost like Talk to your health as if you would want someone to talk to you to motivate you. That can help a lot too, because if those students that are talking about having trouble in law school are truly in a position of something they’re passionate about and this is something they love, then they can get through any of those challenges. It’s not… Often, a lot of it is really about your attitude, and it really is the effort that you put into it, and when it comes down to something you love, the effort isn’t even really gonna feel like work anyway, you’re gonna… It… So I just think it’s our own self-doubt sometimes because we have, again, those feelings that are… All the stuff that needs to get done. We see other people that are in a place where we wanna be, but then taking that time to say, Look, I’ve already gotten this stuff done, look where it used to be and where I am now, all of those kind of moments of celebration and even gratitude are really good at motivating you to keep pushing forward and moving.
0:13:49.2 S1: Now, as far as if somebody were to take the time to really try to work with your company to learn these executive functioning skills, when they have time, how long does it usually take for someone to get this into a habit?
0:14:04.4 S2: It’s funny ’cause it’s really fast, especially with people who are open to it, and I find the kids especially are open, but with adults were really open to the idea of self-reflecting and evaluating, being more self-aware in general is key, and then open to suggestions and trying things. I think a lot of people are hesitant to try something new because they think it’s gonna be a waste of time or it’s not gonna work, but like you said with the essential oil story, you may have never thought of that, and you give it a try and it worked, and if it didn’t work then, okay, you try something else, so sometimes I see a turnaround in attitude and motivation, literally after one session. Sometimes it might take a little bit longer. They have, in some cases, where we do really good for some weeks and then something happens and they kind of have a step back or they’re feeling really defeated, overwhelmed again, we come back and work your way forward, so it’s not necessarily a one-to-time fixed every single time, it sometimes is something you’re constantly working on, but if you are really committed to the idea of improvement and it’s something that can be a really quick turnaround…
0:15:23.2 S1: I saw something on your website, on your blog, and it said “executive functioning abilities do not develop all at once, but rather build upon each other”. So what exactly does that mean?
S2: So again, a lot of people who have executive functioning issues, per se, it’s because of that feeling of overwhelm, so the last thing you wanna do is come in with all of these strategies and ideas because that’s just gonna overwhelm them even more. It really is kind of a process of, Let’s just get started somewhere, and then once we tackle that beast and slay that dragon, it’s kind of like, All right, let’s do work on the next aspect, so if it is a student that’s having trouble with just how do I get something started. Just that initial, knowing what to get started, we would work on that whole parenting and prioritizing method and helping them to get those tasks done, then as they kind of accomplish that, we may realize, Okay, now they’re having trouble with this next component, which might be bigger long term projects and knowing how to write those down into the agile tasks, and so that’s the next thing we will work on, so it’s not necessarily one quick strategy, it really depends on the person and where they’re having struggles, but it is something that you should be constantly working at and improving it.
0:16:51.8 S2: I personally see myself as a very organized person as well, I have lots of spreadsheets on my calendar and I have my list, but there are always ways I’m looking to seek to improve and get better at it, getting TAs initiation and managing everything that needs to be done, and sometimes that’s even asking for help and having other people step in in areas where I’m having a difficult time, so knowing when to go seek outside sources is also a big component of that.
0:17:27.5 S1: Now, I personally have trust issues with other people, meaning that I have never been a group study person, I just do everything on my own because I just… I just don’t trust anyone else, and I can’t even imagine trying to organize and plan a study group and make sure everyone’s doing the same thing, on track. Are there ways that you can use these apps or these systems to help group study…
0:18:02.6 S2: One of my favorite websites Trello, T-R-E-L-L-O, which is great because it’s very collaborative in terms of keeping people on task, so you can take a big project, break it down into specific segments that are assigned to specific people. And as a group member, you can log in at any time and see where things are, because it’s literally a matter of just kind of moving little pieces across it as they progress. That’s been really helpful for me in my business. When there are a lot of moving parts and a lot of people involved, and being able to manage what’s been done, and what’s now my responsibility, ’cause sometimes we can’t do our part until the person has done their part, and so knowing when that’s ready and getting alerts for that is really key. That’s one of my favorite, but there’s so many other resources I really like Google Drive as well, because it is something that is constantly updated and at any moment you can log in really easily from any device and see what’s gotten done in terms of the group, so if there is a presentation you’re working on and you’re drafting up the content for it, you can log in and all of you guys could be working on the same document at the same time.
0:19:21.9 S2: I would use technology as much as possible, especially now, and we’re not really working in person, but you could still do things in person in terms of maybe having a white board in a room that you’re working on and tracking it the same way. There’s a lot of satisfaction in crossing things off personally, which I like to have a paper list, I like to cross it off, I got it done. It’s that reward I have for like, Look, we’re moving forward. And at the end of the day, a list for everything crossed off makes me feel really good, like I got things done in that day, so I would again, experiment, something that works for you in that group, and if you are a group member and someone’s coming to you with ideas of maybe how to progress them forward, be really open to their suggestions and ideas, because even if at first it might seem like it’s just creating extra work, you may end up really enjoying it, like Trello, I was a little overwhelmed at first and I started using it like, That’s awesome. Why didn’t I know about this?
0:20:27.5 S1: Yeah, I just started using Trello myself and I second that.
0:20:31.1 S2: It’s awesome, and it’s free… I mean… You can’t beat that.
0:20:34.1 S1: Right? I’m like, Okay, does it cost me money? I can organize my interns with it, and I have my own to-do list that’s where I keep my to do’s now as of a few weeks ago or whatever, it’s new to me, but again, rather than moving in my calendar, all the phone calls I have to make or the little research projects I have, I can just put it in the general to-do list and then again move it when it’s done or in progress, so I can tell it’s halfway done or whatever it is, but Trello is amazing. Once you learn how to set up your own little chart thing, but that
0:21:07.1 S2: Is a really quick learning curve, right. And I know business owners or business leaders in general, who use it to manage their networking and you know the collaborations and their connections, so there’s more uses to it besides just the project side of it.
0:21:25.3 S1: I think that’s a really good way for a group, a study group to work together and make sure everyone is on track, and like you said, Google Drive as well, especially for the bigger documents and things like that. That’s great. Any other suggestions for students in general, just to approach the school year.
0:21:47.4 S2: I would be really aware of the environment that you’re working in it has a big impact on your ability to focus and your overall attitude in general, and I know that that’s sometimes… finding a place where it’s really motivating to you and allows you to focus is key. Personally, I do best with noisy backgrounds, which is weird, so you stick me in a cafe or on an airplane, and I am just focused, I can get so much work done, and I discovered that in college, but it has to be kind of a murmur in the background, not necessarily someone talking next to me in my dorm room, as an adult, I found that music has been really helpful, there’s certain times where I’m just dragging my heels to get something done and I need to get it done I’ll put on a playlist, and I kind of tap my feet dancing a little bit as I’m working and it makes things a little bit better for me, so be aware of the situation that you need to work, because I think that you can have a big impact on your attitude towards the work itself and really, the output quality of the work that you give.
0:23:06.7 S1: And again, it can be so important for first-year law students, especially because there’s no room for error, you need to outline… I don’t wanna say perfectly, but you kind of feel like you have to be perfect from day one because you don’t have time to go back and fix things, so you wanna be in that perfect mode of if you need that silence, you’re in a Silent zone. Or if… Yeah, if you need that background that you’re sitting in a food-court or whatever, because that makes a lot of sense.
0:23:35.3 S2: It might even be helpful to have someone with you… So even though you may not be talking to each other. I found that sometimes I have these study dates even with friends as adults, where we wanna see each other, but we both have work to get done, so we’ll meet at a cafe, pre-covid, bring our laptops, chat with each other as we’re getting our coffee and our muffins and then you just kind of work, but then I have someone to toss ideas off or to take a couple of minute breather just to kinda talk about something that… We’re both working at the same time, that could be really helpful as well. It also not make you feel like you’re missing out on that whole aspect of sitting in your room and getting things done, but again, just I would encourage people to experiment and find something that works for them, because what works for One person might not work for you, but be open to input and suggestions and giving them a bit of Try.
0:24:31.3 S1: We’ve talked a little bit about your company, but I’d love to hear more about what type of tutoring and services do you provide…
0:24:39.1 S2: So we obviously do what typical tutoring companies do, so we’re gonna help with academics and we’re gonna help with test prep, but I really feel like it would be ineffective if we didn’t also address those underlying learning and life skills that are causing the struggles in academics and… And tests, and a lot of that is stuff that we’ve already discussed, for example, the executive functions really showing our students how to focus, how to organize, how to roll set, how to plan, prioritize, all of these things that aren’t always explicitly taught to us and we’re just kind of expected to figure it out, and a lot of us have, but there’s even some adults I know that are still trying to figure it out and kind of have told me, Man, I wish I had this when I was a kid, because I would have saved myself, a lot of struggle. So that’s definitely an area we work on, we also work on meta-cognition, which is thinking about how you think, mindset’s a big part of this, being able to identify your emotions and manage them, being able to be proactive in terms of stress management techniques, for example, again, when you’re feeling overwhelmed, knowing what to do ahead of time, because in that moment of overwhelmed, you’re not thinking the same way as you are when you’re out of it, so being really proactive in setting up certain strategies, and then we work on skills so that our students can be out in the world and making changes, so those interpersonal skills like advocacy and leadership, active listening and empathy, those soft skills that again, we’re just kind of expected to figure out, but are so essential for long-term success.
0:26:34.0 S1: I love those. I think we’re gonna have to have you come back on and go into more detail on how we can apply those things and use those things in our lives. I love that. Yeah, I definitely had a learning curve in college because I don’t think my high school taught me enough analytical skills to write a proper paper, and so my initial grades were horrible and I had to learn. It’s great to know there’s somewhere to go for that, that you can specifically learn it, it’s not just a writing skill, it is a brain exercise, so That’s great. Now, what about your non-profit? Tell me about that.
0:27:15.9 S2: So our non-profit is mainly in response to what’s going on currently with the school closures, but it also is more of a passion project, which is written back to my origins of working with the most poor populations and providing them with access to these tools and skills as well. And so the non-profit Educate Radiate Elevate, is working with K-12 students, helping them again, with the academics and the test prep, but also teaching them these really valuable skills so that they can be active agents of change in their lives and the lives of those around them. And it’s really geared towards low-income students of color, again, because they are the most vulnerable when it comes to education and resources, and I wanted to make sure that they have access to this high quality service, just as the people who have money to give them a better chance a shot at making changes in our communities, which are so needed. So the non-profit I started in November, I’m using the same tutors I have for WorldWise, they are very, highly vetted and sought out and trained and experienced educated, and they are very committed to the mission of helping the students where the traditional system just isn’t working for them, which is a lot of students, because our system isn’t really matching what today’s society, as you said, you didn’t learn a lot of the analytical skills, we’re kind of taught a lot of memorization, or this is the right way of doing things, and that doesn’t serve us in our careers and in our life, and we have to think outside the box.
0:29:13.2 S2: And so really work with our students to not just empower them so they feel confident and independent, but to also inspire them to take those risks in their learning and to innovate and create aand problem solve and question. And all of these things that are really gonna help to move our society forward…
0:29:35.3 S1: That’s Fantastic, I love that. Great, okay, so if people want it to check out your services or get in contact with you, how can they do that?
0:29:45.1 S2: The best place to start would be the website, so worldwisetutoring.com, and then the non-profit is educateradiateelevate.org on there. You’ll also have links to our social media or everywhere on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest, we are on all of those places as well. And then I have a lot of free resources on there to help students and learn these skills, or to help parents teach their children skills or even educators who are interested in going beyond the curriculum and entertaining these skills into their lessons, because I do think that it can seem overwhelming. We all… While we all know that these are not just nice to have skills, we know that they are essential, they can seem overwhelming of how to approach them, but what I do, and again, as the educators try to take this complex thing and break it into simple, manageable ideas and so I would go ahead and check out those two websites for some tools that you can implement in your daily life now.
0:30:52.6 S1: Perfect, but I think you also have a Facebook group too, right?
0:30:57.6 S2: I do. So I have a Facebook group that’s geared towards students, parents and educators, and every day I’m sharing learning resources, because there’s so much out there, depending on your specific needs, I’m also sharing tips, and it’s a community where we can be really honest in talking to each other about our struggles, because I think one of our issues with society right now is we really try to present this image of Everything’s okay, it’s all right, but when we start surrounding ourselves with other people who aren’t… I’m not saying that they’re complaining and being negative, but who are being vulnerable and opening up about struggles that they’re having, it then allows us an opportunity to help them and then also be more receptive to other people’s advice in our own lives, because we know that it’s not a characterization of our failures that we all have to struggle to grow, that’s just how life is, and it’s the attitude of being able to be self-reflective and explore, that really helps you to progress.
0:32:07.4 S1: That’s great. Okay, so what’s the name of the Facebook group?
S2: The Facebook group is called positivity for parents, educators and students.
S1: Okay, alright, great, well, thank you so much for joining us today, Lindsey. I really appreciate your time. Before we get into my top takeaways, a quick word from our sponsor Juno if you need to take out student loans, check in with Juno first, Juno can offer law students 1 to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government. And not only with no cost to the student, but often times cash back as well, visit joinjuno.com/p/legallearningcenter for more information.
Okay, so my top takeaways from speaking with Lindsey, first, her company not only offers tutoring for subject matters, and then learning disabilities as well, but also side issues like executive functioning and developing analytical skills. Now, with respect to executive functioning, so again, that’s like planning and organizing, time management, all of that, we can learn it quickly, if we’re open to new ideas, so try to improve your skill set before you go to law school, because once you start law school, there’s really no time that I’ll just make sure you’re ready to go. 0:33:32.1 S1: alright, that’s it for this episode. All tips links and so forth will be in the show notes. A full transcript will be available at LegalLearningCenter.com/worldwisetutoring, and be sure to check in next week when we are going to talk with Nick Loper, Nick is the creator of Side Hustle Nation, and will help us find new ways to make more money now. So we have less debt later, and if you learn anything today, please like share, comment, subscribe, so that this show is more visible to others and can help those who may need it. Thanks.
If you’d like to learn more practical tips for law school, check out the networking and mentoring tips from Leg Up Legal, Episode 13 and informational interview tips from Dave Strousberg, Esq., Episode 14.
