Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the Legal Learning Center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school, to receive three money savings strategies today. Visit legallearningcenter.com/money. Today, we are joined by Emily Hirsekorn, the lawyer’s career confidence coach. Stay tuned for how she can help your early career take off.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thank you so much, Jolene. I’m thrilled to be here, especially after we tried to record the last time and my wifi was being totally nuts. So it’s exciting to come back together successfully. I am the lawyer’s career confidence coach. I am owning that title. I have to share that I kept calling myself a life coach for lawyers and confidence comes up every stinking time. So I’m owning it. I am the lawyer’s career confidence coach. What the heck does that mean? I help high achieving lawyers build confidence in themselves, confidence in their career choices and confidence in their leadership potential so that they can stress less, achieve more and love their life.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So exciting. I love it. Okay. All right. So when is the sweet spot for someone to start on this career confidence?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Oh, well, as you know, never too early, right. That’s such a great question. So I do serve folks at all stages of their career, but my sweet spot is really the emerging lawyer or early career lawyer. I would say with eight or less years of experience, including law students. So it starts when you get into law school. And I know you’ve experienced some this year in your work too, right, where they’re coming in, there’s the buzz everybody’s getting jobs but me, or so and so did so well with their oral argument or they made law review and I didn’t and like, it feels like that’s every thing.
And so the self-doubt starts, the imposter syndrome hits really hard when you get into your summer associate position, if that’s what you’re doing or right after graduation, when you get out there and you’re getting real work and maybe you’re even taking on clients, if you’re in a small firm, for example, you’re working for a judge and a clerkship, that is scary. And I feel like after serving thousands of these folks in law school career development, for years in my past, almost everyone I talk to has some version of imposter syndrome, so that sweet spot to start as early as possible. But if you haven’t definitely get in whenever you can, especially when you’re starting out in the real world after graduation, because those first couple of years, I really believe they can make or break your career.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah. And a lot of firms apply the strategy of sink or swim. I mean, they might kind of give you a mentor, but a lot of them just are like, go, do, figure it out. And that doesn’t help your confidence at all.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You know, it’s like in theory it could, but how much theory is actually playing out. Right. So I love that you brought that up. I have a client, for example, she’s an entry level lawyer, and first of all, the boss can be kind of nasty. Which sadly like yellers could be common in this field. It’s kind of wild. But so that can be an issue. Management can be an issue. But yeah, she’s thrown in and she’s doing hearings over and over now quickly. And over time, she is going to build confidence because she’ll know what the hell she’s doing. And that’s part of the issue when we don’t know that shit’s scary. We’d like control. Most of us, a lot of us are A type. We want to know what we’re doing. We’re really academic. And so we’re used to learning it all and then you can do it.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Right. So it doesn’t work like that. So over time, those folks will learn. But in the beginning, I mean, we’d hop on a phone call. She’s so funny. She’d say Emily. I was in court. The judge thought I was shit. My boss thinks I’m shit. And yeah, early on, I mean, it feels like that when you don’t know what you’re doing.
So to have somewhat of a mindset reset, as I like to say to pull back, I was telling my clients, I’m not in the weeds of your brain. And they always laugh because they’re like, yeah, those weeds are tall. Oh my gosh. So me being on the outside and I simplify things, but sometimes that’s what we need. Someone who’s objective and neutral who can just give you kind of a reality, a gentle reality check. And you’re like, oh, okay, this isn’t the end of the world. I will learn over time. And then also how to advocate for yourself and take care of yourself for sustainable success. So that you’re not just getting by in those first few years. That’s what it usually feels like.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I can see this at so many levels because you know, there’s the partners that you have to deal with. There’s the annual reviews and that type of thing. So just being confident when you walk in there, like I deserve a raise. Here’s why knowing why you deserve a raise. Yeah.
But then also just in court, when someone’s yelling at you or even not yelling at you, but being aggressive with you and how do you respond, especially when you don’t know if they’re right or wrong. Right. They’re saying, look, your client should be paying me because, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, really? Is that real? What are you talking about? I don’t know anything. And especially I can flat out guarantee if you’re new, we know you’re new. Okay. Don’t try to pretend, you know everything because we know you’re new. Yeah. No matter how well you hide it, we can still tell.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But still those first several responses the first few months, how do you respond? You know, I mean, it’s scary. You immediately want to go run to your client and say, he’s big, bad, and scary. And he’s going to like threaten us with sanctions. If we don’t pay him, we should give him more money. You know? And of course your client’s like, are you an idiot?
So you have to, how do you handle these things? And having someone to the side that can just run through this with you. Okay, look, next time, this is what we’re going to do. Or, you know, whatever. That’s just, I can just see how amazing that would be to not have to admit to your coworkers that, you know, you’re an idiot, you know, using that term loosely, but you know that you can share your ignorance with someone else. And can I make a better plan for next time.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
In a safe space? I mean, what you just said, people constantly express this fear of sounding or looking stupid constantly. And it’s fascinating because I think it’s quite obvious where that’s coming from. A lot of us are perfectionists, recovering perfectionist and we’re very high achieving a lot of us. And so we set these super high standards and if we’re used to kind of being at the top and all of a sudden, we’re not, it’s confusing.
We literally don’t know how to navigate that. I think that’s a lot of times part of what’s going on the other pieces. I think this industry hammers it into us, that we have that feeling that we have to be perfect. Sometimes, you know, mistakes can cost millions, right. Can impact someone’s life. So it’s, it’s a hard, it’s a hard thing to really adjust. I will say that, but all I was thinking Jolene, as you were talking was yes.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
How do I keep my cool, right? Like how do I keep my shit together? How do I hold it together to keep going? And that’s so much of the work that I do is helping people shift their energy. It’s a hundred percent energy work. And if that term doesn’t resonate with you, that’s cool. I have plenty of people I could refer you to who don’t talk energy more like executive coaching style. But it’s energy.
How do I shift my destructive energy? We’re talking fear, worry, stress self-doubt coming down hard on yourself. I’m such an idiot. That kind of stuff, too productive where you might first say it’s still heavy judgment. Like, okay, that was still really dumb that I just did that, but I’m going to move on or I still feel my boss should not have yelled at me like that. That was not cool, but I’m going to move on.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
I’m going to be okay. So that’s the first step. And then the second step is once you’re cool and kind of getting by, because most of our standard, most of us don’t have a standard of just getting by in life. Then the next question is, how can I actually be, how can I actually be thriving? How can I actually enjoy what I’m doing more at work? And, oh my God, I know this is crazy, but enjoy my life outside of work or working with a client on that.
And she’s like, I have a lot of work to do. And she actually does estate planning and we were doing some reality checking and she was like, oh my God, Emily, my clients are dead. So it’s not like, right. It’s not like anyone needs this tomorrow. My clients are dead. Like it was such this, we were laughing together, but it was such this, this awesome moment where she was like, oh my gosh, I don’t have to work eight hours on Saturday, eight hours on Sunday. And until 10:30 PM every night during the week, it’s going to be okay. And we’re experimenting, finding that happy medium. That is hard.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
It is. I think that we often need somebody outside ourselves and especially someone who understands our profession and our pressures because we do put a lot on ourselves. Right. So because we are perfectionist or hard workers or all the above. But yeah, it it’s, it doesn’t matter what field we’re in. It doesn’t matter what we’re doing. We either have that constant threat of malpractice or we just have that constant self doubt in our minds. Like if we’re not working 110%, then what are we doing? Kind of a thing. And it’s just, we really do a lot of it to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Another way to think about it. The exact same idea is sometimes I do this explicit work with someone where we’re talking about our life rules, that they’re coming into our relationship with, what are all the rules of life that you’re currently operating by? And it’s, it’s always fun to wait for people’s hesitation or things that they’re not saying that I get to dig in a little bit too. Because it’s not what you’d want. It’s what you are living by.
So this is, this is raising their self-awareness, which is the first goal. So let’s say I’ll just share some of my own that I’ve carried with me for a long time. I’m working on changing for example, that work work. I have to be doing work, work to feel productive and to feel good, feel like I’m contributing. I don’t want to keep holding onto that rule anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
So once I had children and I took some time off and I went back and forth, staying home, doing part-time stuff, I’m like, oh, okay. So this other stuff matters too. But that takes a lot of self-work to really it’s one thing, logically, you can say it out loud and get it. It’s another thing to really feel it in your heart, but also in your gut, because that matters at the end of the day. Not just whether you can buy into that. So that’s one life rule. Another one is I have to speak a certain way. I have to look a certain way. I have to care about certain things to be accepted in the professional community. Now, there is an extent, right, when we’re talking about professionalism. So I’m not, I wouldn’t show up to, let’s say a big client meeting with a law firm or a law school, I’m wearing my pajamas, right.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
A little unprofessional by pretty objective standards. But some silly things like I’m working, I’m trying to wear my hair down and actually had been having a lot of fun with it. But by traditional means when I was younger and in law school, you would always see people in professional photos with their hair down. And I was never a hair down kind of girl. I always had a bun. I used to call it my Susan B. Anthony bun actually, which is so ridiculous. But I would put it like at the nape of my neck. And, but I always felt uncomfortable. I always felt like that was like, I wasn’t doing what I was supposed to do. Or, you know, certain attire where in, I remember my going through OCIs and my career services office say, you need to wear a white, plain white button down black suit.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I used to call it my federal court suit. And, and then sometimes people do mock interviews with alumni and they’d be like, brighten it up a little bit. I’m like, oh, we can wear some color. So look, I think early on, obviously err, on the side of conservativism a little bit, but I also want to encourage people to toy with it a little bit and see, see what’s, you know, what feels good and is considered professional take note of what other people are doing. And well-respected folks, you know, that you really want to kind of model what you’re doing after a while. Also figuring out who you are taking these bits and pieces, how you want to live, how you want to show up in the world and then choosing whether to hold on to the rules that you’ve been living by, or actually let go of them.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah. There’s so much I can think of throughout my profession where I’ve had to let things go, whether kind of forced or, you know, I just chose, I don’t want to do that anymore. I don’t want to be like that anymore, whatever it was. And I think, yeah, it’s just interesting to see the development. I wonder what would have changed if I had actually had some help, some guidance to move that needle along a little faster, you know, because I definitely discovered that for example, I don’t need to engage with someone who’s yelling, you know? And in fact I became known for being really good with some of the tough attorneys because I would just, oh yeah, that’s rough, you know, whatever. And I would empathize your clients, not getting money. Oh gosh. So what is it you actually want? Let me make a list.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
No, no stop babbling. I need a list, you know? And it was almost like kindergarten, you know? And then let me see what I can do. Of course I knew I couldn’t do anything or whatever. Right. So I come back. Yeah. I can’t do anything, but it just, you know, it was a system I learned over time. But I think when you have some guidance too, it’s like, you can get rid of that fear that you have the first handful of like 20 times you get yelled at, you know, and you can have someone who’s been in the profession tell you, okay, look, what if you tried this other way?
You know, so you can think outside that box a little faster, move into your comfort zone so much faster. And again, the young attorney who looks confident and is confident again, early in that career, I think will go a lot further because the bosses will see it. Everyone will see it and they’ll think, you know, everything you don’t have to knowing, you know, anything really. You just have to know how to deflect. You have to know how to handle. And that takes you at least 50% of where you need to go.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
The other thing is, I love how you’re talking about career advancement, which is definitely what I want to help people with. But if we pull back a little bit, my real underlying goal is to help people recognize that they have choices. So what you’re doing, everything you can to be as successful as possible, however the hell you define success, then you have some real choices and that’s an awesome place to be. I think you also always have choice, but just more functionally speaking. So if you’ve done well in your career from day one, you can say, okay, I want to stick around and work my way up to partner. I want to switch firms or employers, or I want to have some babies and take a couple of years off and then go back in. So that’s the idea to build up to that point, do everything you can to set yourself up for success.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
So in other words, we’re talking about sustainability of success. Look, you can work with a traditional career advisor, even a career coach to get you a job or handle some specific isolated challenge. That’s not what I’m doing here. I am helping people develop their leadership skills so that they can really be confident and make choices from that place of confidence. I keep thinking about this call I had last night, that was super fun. Every call I have with this client is amazing. but we were talking about, we uncovered that, something that was kind of looming for her was this conversation that she wanted to have with some partners at her firm. And she’s like, but I’m a people pleaser, which I feel like everyone says is super funny because I am not a people pleaser. I’m like, oh, I’m like go-to people pleaser headspace.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
But, but a lot of people resonate with that. I’m a people pleaser. So I either come across like, oh yes, whatever you’re saying, you know, like it’s hard to get the message across and really advocate for myself or because I’m working so hard to suppress that, I come across too blunt and defensive and harsh. I’m like, oh yeah, I recognize that. That and I, I worked very hard on that. So we worked together to develop a conversation. I love this idea from, do you wanna put it in the show notes? From crucial conversations. I don’t know if you’ve read the book or done one of the workshops. It’s fantastic. And they talk about starting with that because people can’t argue or be emotional about facts and in theory. Right. but I love that idea. So we started with the facts like this is what’s going on.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Great. And then what do you want to say? What’s the real message? She shared it like I always do. I help. I literally I’ve been editing for years. I literally edit people’s language. I help them cut out the crap or what we tend to think of as negative focus on the positive. So it’s more neutral and really like getting buy-in right. While still getting your message across.
And then she came up with this, her words, but this beautiful message that she felt confident in sharing. There’s the competence piece. You feel good when, like you said, you’ve got some outside source to help you. Right. Usually we’re just in the weeds by ourself and we’re like, get me out of here. So it’s nice to be able to really co-work with someone else develop that kind of language together, positions, decisions, all of that kind of stuff. Make sure that you’re coming from a place of reality, but also a place of choice. What do you really want to do? Let’s try to let go of what we think we should be doing.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
That’s awesome. I can see so many different circumstances where that would be helpful because we do, we go in, if something’s important to us and it’s very emotional. And even if we try to stick to something like a neutral fact, we might also just exude too much emotional saying it. Right. But if we’ve tried to process it, especially with someone outside of ourselves, you know, and just really practice, okay. Maybe not that phrase, maybe let’s use this other phrase, these facts and then the figures and whatever, and just get them at least listening. Right. Because you don’t want them to shut down the minute you start talking. Yeah. Yeah. I’ve I had a boss once that just, we did not see eye to eye, but he was in charge of the money. So raise time. I knew what everybody else was making. I knew what my accomplishments were.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I knew what I should be making in comparison to everything and just give it to me. But I had the facts, I had the facts and I just went in very comfortably and I just said, well, you know, and I started with the facts. The ABA says I should be making this much based on my billing. And that’s my billing right there. And he kicked me out of his office.
That’s okay, well, facts are facts, you know? And then I came back and each time my facts got a little, what I would call weaker, you know, I finally pulled the card of, okay, can I tell you what everyone else here is making or made at this point in their career when they were here? So here’s all the things. And I know technically it’s kind of a little bit apples and oranges a little bit, or maybe different types of apples. Right. Cause we all have different successes, but we’re all young attorneys. Right. So we’re different apples, but you know, overall I should be in this range that I just mentioned according to the American bar association. So, you know, so I feel like that was my weakest argument, but it still was actually based. In fact, he kicked me out three times.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, and so all I’m thinking is, okay, Jolene, like, let’s say this was the case right now. I would say to you, how much do you want to work for someone who doesn’t want to hear the facts.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I left soon after.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
And that’s the cool thing because, we fear, oh my gosh, what if they kick me out? Worst case scenario. What’s the best thing that could come out of that. Right? Or how could that actually unintentionally incidentally work in your favor?
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah. Yeah. It was two months later. I think I immediately started looking. Yeah. And one of my coworkers had left the year before. And so I just was like, are you still there? Or are you still happy? Are you still making good money? Like let me know. And she was like, actually we just hired someone. And then they, I guess they didn’t show up or something. So she was like, okay. Immediate opening. And because it was a large corporation, it took like a month or two to do the whole process. But I was within like two months, I was there and stayed there for 12 years. So, you know, I was very happy and very appreciated at the next firm.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
But isn’t it amazing that what felt like probably presumably a negative, scary, you know, picky kind of situation like that was important for you to get you out of. So I’m talking, I was talking about energy earlier. My practice is based in these energy levels. And energy level three is like, I’m super judged. I’m working on my judgment, but I have a lot of judgment against energy level three. So level three is like, eh, it’s fine. I’m just going to power through like heavy judgment, like things suck, but I’m going to take one for the team. I’ll get it done.
Oh, that is so not me. So my point is sometimes when we’re stuck in level three, we don’t do anything to make a change to our lives. So if you’re used to just like taking the shit or just sucking it up with a boss that really doesn’t make you feel good, doesn’t empower you where you’re not going anywhere deep down.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
You don’t like that. You don’t want that. But if your mentality is like, well, this is just what life has handed me. You know, good for you for not living in high stress every day, but you’re also never going to move. So sometimes interestingly enough, it’s important for someone to get fired up and drop their energy down to level two, which is kind of conflict. It’s upset. It’s anger. It’s, you know, you’re off like, yeah, this does really suck.
Like I might have someone, we go through an exercise where I’m like, give me all the reasons why your job sucks. If they’re just sitting there in level three and not doing anything, let’s think about that. And then I might ask, so what are you going to do about it? And they’re like, well, gosh, now I want to leave. Okay, good. If that’s really what you want to do, I want to make sure it’s coming from a conscious place. That it’s their choice. I am never suggesting what people should do. But if someone tells me deep down, I know this is not the place for me, but they’re doing nothing. Then I’m going to help them get there.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah. Change is scary.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
It’s really scary. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
It’s I mean, for me, I just felt so angry that they were forcing me out. That’s how I felt, you know? I mean, obviously I had a choice I could stay, but I was like, this is not, this isn’t workable. This is not fair. It’s not reasonable. It’s not what I’m worth. And, but I liked my coworkers. I liked all the other partners. They all liked me, you know, I had no plans to leave there and I was like, I can’t afford to live like this.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
That’s where people get stuck. Sometimes that’s the level three rationalization. So someone might say it’s so fascinating because sometimes we want to move up to level three to like get by because you’re high stress all the time and that’s no good either, but that’s what people might do. Wow. Everyone’s so nice. Shouldn’t I just be grateful for what I have. Right? Like you can rationalize the hell out of it and do nothing. Or you can ask yourself like, what do I really want when it comes down to it?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Now I know you also have a background in this. You mentioned it earlier a little bit, but I just want to like really touch on it because it sounds like you just have this world of experience, not just like this energy work, which is sounding so amazing. I mean, I love the little levels, but you also have a background you said in career coaching through the schools. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah. Yes. So I was a law school career advisor since 2014 for seven years off and on had a couple babies in there and taught a little bit in there too. But I mean, like I said, I’ve supported tons of law students and lawyers in that role. And what that did for me was give me perspective. It really showed me what people at that level are dealing with. Obviously, if you’re a lawyer, you have your own ideas. Right, right. But I just think it’s so important to be in touch too, with what people are saying and experiencing now. And so having that perspective really informed my next move. And I always tell people where law school career services is doing a pretty good job, helping you get a job who is helping you succeed in your job. That’s where I’m filling this gap in services.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now I loved that work and that I quickly saw there was so much more that needed to be done. I mean, I am on a mission to fill this gap. And the other thing I noticed Jolene is once I really got into the coaching space and was training in it and meeting a lot of different coaches, including lawyer coaches, I’m like, oh my God, it’s executive coaches. That’s all you see and hear over and over and over. And I’m telling you, when I talked to entry-level lawyers, a couple of quick stories, one said to me, verbatim, Emily, you are exactly what I need. And I had no idea existed. Nobody is talking to early career folks about coaching. It’s just, let’s help you get a job because that’s the first start, right. That’s where we need to start. And it’s so important to have a freaking job.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But what about everything else? So the other story is someone said one of my clients in my group program, that’s specifically on competence specifically for entry-level women lawyers. She said to me, you know, I was looking around for coaches, probably on LinkedIn and I saw so and so, and they’re an executive coach that did not speak to me. And then I saw your work and your posts that said 2019 and 2020 grads. And I thought, that’s me.
I mean, people want to be spoken to, they want to know that you work specifically for them that you speak their language. They want to know that you’re going to be empathetic and not talking above them, that you’re in it with them. And that’s where I’m at. I mean, it’s like, I’m an empath. So I actually have to do some energy shielding work, which is fascinating. So that I don’t take on other people’s. Right. but I’ve gotten pretty good at that over the years. But it’s so important that we’re helping people at this stage so that we can prevent burnout, prevent all these issues that a lot of the coaching is addressing later on in their careers.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Oh my gosh, I love the sound of this again. And again, I love the sound of this. Like I like the energy levels. I mean just, yeah. The confidence and again, you’re absolutely right. It opens up opportunities. Whether you want to go again, interview for something that’s non-legal right. You have that kind of confidence of even if, you know, somewhere in you, you don’t have the confidence, but you’ve built up this confidence of I can go apply for something else or when you’re in court, people see it. And so, I mean, I’ve had people just randomly, when are you gonna come work for me? Just randomly. I mean, I wasn’t even talking to them, you know, I’m in line to see the judge and, and they’re just standing on the sidelines and it’s just random. I’m like I was talking to this guy, thanks.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
We can talk later, I guess. I don’t know, you know, it just randomness, but it is it’s that presentation, right? Like you said, a bit of what you were, you know, not to a T, but in a general sense and what you’re exuding, it’s not even necessarily a hundred percent what you’re doing on a case, because we all again make mistakes. You know, we all make decisions that aren’t mistakes, but maybe in retrospect, you’re like, oh, maybe I should have pushed more for trial on that one or whatever the case may be.
But as long as you’re handling things, reasonably you’re handling things professionally and people like, you know, kind of working with you or opposing you or whatever that word is that you want to use. And again, a lot of that comes from that confidence then. Yeah. You’re, you’re on their list of if she ever reaches out, you know, or he ever reaches out whatever you’re working with the lady. So yes, it has to be a she. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well actually I do, I do support anyone and everyone and my group work is focused in on women for sure. So just a clarifying point. And I actually, I’ve worked with a lot of fabulous men. Some men also talk about imposter syndrome and I applaud you for talking about it because I think most people experience it to some degree and the group that I have, a couple of women I talked to early on about it, they said, this needs to be exclusively for women said, all right, done. I’m like, no questions asked if that’s how you feel. And you’re the demographic. Awesome. Let’s do that. So that’s good to know. Yeah. And what you were saying, what you were saying. I was just thinking of like taking it one step further. So when you’re talking about self image is what I’m hearing and I’m hearing a presentation and really interpersonal skills to take it one step further.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I love this idea of working on yourself so that you can improve and strengthen that skill set and those abilities. And simultaneously also detaching from these outcomes, from these standards that you or the industry have set for yourself so that when you up, because it’s going to happen. Right. But I love it. Your perspective, we’re all gonna make mistakes. Sometimes when that happens, you can recognize it and not beat yourself up about it. And you can exercise, compassion and keep going. Yeah, that, that is, I think that’s the magic equation here is working on building up your skills and doing well and achieving, and the simultaneously being able to keep going when things don’t go your way, because that is going to happen. I think if you’re just working on one of those, there’s a lot of potential, you know, for it to be hard on yourself and really get stuck and not be moving forward.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And frankly, you know, obviously I think everyone’s familiar with the mental health issues in the legal fields. Depression, anxiety are pretty rampant. So I think that’s the magic equation there that I love for people to think about. Even in my work with my clients, yes. Let’s address the things that are coming up as they come up and then also like incident by incident or preparing for conversations, whatever in the moment, and also simultaneously general self-care how are you taking care of yourself? How are you making sure that you’re taking time to take a break throughout the day? Right? Because again, that’s important to be doing simultaneously so that you can set yourself up for long-term success and not just be getting these little wins over and over. And then you’re done working with the coach and you’re like, I’m not taking care of myself. Right? Like what, what now? And, and it can really fall off and you can get derailed.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah. I think those habits are really important to build habits. Exactly. Yeah. All right, Emily. So tell me, where can people find you if they want to follow you, work with you, learn more about you.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yes. So LinkedIn and Instagram, please follow me connect. I’d love to see you over there posting regular content. Please check out my website, www.hirsekorncoaching.com. I also recently published a fun quiz so that you can figure out what your particular career confidence persona is. We’re always focusing on our weaknesses, right? What could we improve on? I’m not doing this well, so I want you to have a quick confidence boost and figure out what the heck you’re doing, right? So that you can lean into that a little bit more and celebrate your successes. So pop into the quiz, get on my mailing list. I’m sending out regular weekly emails so that you can get some free content straight to your inbox.
All things, career competence, leadership, work-life integration, and stay in touch because very exciting stuff to come with, respect to the reformatted version of my group program. That’s been awesome. It’s going to be the career confidence club for entry level lady lawyers relaunching in September.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Good to know. I’m very excited to see that. And thanks so much. I’ll link everything up in the show notes. Before we get into my top takeaways, a quick word from our sponsor. Juno, if you have to take out student loans, check in with Juno. First, Juno can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and oftentimes cash back as well. Visit advisor.legallearningcenter.com/Juno. For more information, my top takeaways from our chat with Emily develop leadership skills that will help you gain confidence. And when you gain confidence, you have more choices. Number two, she works with energy shifting and mindset work, and those things can really help your confidence and help progress your career. Number three, having a third party, an outside person to just bounce ideas off of ask questions of, to work through issues with can really be valuable.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
It’s really hard to know who to trust in your law firm. You don’t want to look stupid. You don’t want to hurt your chances of promotion and sometimes there’s gossip. So Emily’s a great person to have for that. Now that’s it. For this episode, all the tips and links will be in the show notes. A full transcript will be available out legallearningcenter.com/Emily. And if you enjoy this episode, if you learned something today, please leave a review that helps the show be seen by more people and helps us help more students. Thanks.
