Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Legal Learning Podcast. I’m your host Jolene. And with the Legal Learning Center, I help prospective law students save $300,000 on law school. To receive three money saving strategies today. Visit legallearningcenter.com/money. Today we are joined by Ashley Hill. Ashley helps students get scholarships.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Awesome. So first of all, Jolene, thank you so much for this opportunity. I’m excited. I love talking about this. So thank you for the invitation and so hello to everyone. As Jolene said my name is Ashley Hill. I am a scholarship search strategist and that’s just fancy talk for, I love to assist incoming and current graduate and professional students and learning how to leverage other people’s money in order to graduate from their program without going into tons of student loan debt.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
This is such an exciting topic for me because I never really understood this when I was in college. I didn’t even understand it was a thing for law school. I’ve heard the same thing from several others that they didn’t realize third-party scholarships were a thing for law school. So, you know, a lot of us have graduated with a lot more debt than I think we needed to. So. Okay. How do you help students graduate with less debt? How do you find the scholarships for them?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Sure. So I give a little background. I actually came from corporate America spent almost 10 years there and I was a researcher. I knew when I went to college, I was a biology major and I knew I wanted to do research in some capacity. Never thought it would be this way, but I’m so glad that the strategies and the techniques and all those classes didn’t go to waste. So really what I do. And when it’s important, especially for my law school students to focus on is that they are a brand.
And I know Jolene, you know, about this from the admission side, because you help them get into a really good law school, but they really have to find ways to highlight their strengths and to find opportunities to develop themselves, develop their skillset, their passion, like for example, whether they’re going into civil rights side of law or working with children or being an advocate for those that have disabilities, whatever the I’ll say the, a particular area in law that they want to focus on.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It’s all about putting that brand together. And so I helped them to kind of highlight what they already are interested in. We don’t reinvent the wheel, we start with what they’re interested in and then I simply play the connector. So they tell me that they want to go into working on disability rights. I mean, an advocate for that. Then we connect them with organizations that have those opportunities and I put it together in a list for them.
Now I have a DIY version, actually have a guide for future law school students. So if they would like to go through the process themselves, they’re more than welcome to, but of course we know that they’re busy. Probably working with you, getting into school. They don’t have time. I actually go out and I do all the research and the connecting and pulling everything together. And we actually make custom scholarship lists.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh my Gosh. Yes. I always felt like I was too busy to apply to scholarships. If one kind of came across my desk or something, then that was different, but just trying to find the ones I qualified for and the ones that I might actually have a chance at. I mean, it just, it always seemed like there’s just no time to write all these essays or to fill out all these applications. And again, I just felt like the, my percent chance of getting it was so low. So is there a way that you calculate how likely they are to get a certain scholarship?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I don’t know if it’s so much a calculation, but I have seen over time and we were talking beforehand, But what I have seen over time is that those students that focus on scholarships in their either local area or their region they have a very, very high chance of winning those scholarships. And it’s, I guess it is math involved, right? Because everyone that’s not in that community or region or that state, then they’re automatically not eligible because it’s a local scholarship. And also I have seen really good success for law school students that they already kind of have an interest already. So like I said, whether it’s juvenile, domestic, you know, whatever, if they want to be a prosecutor or whatever their interest is in focusing on those specific opportunities, they have a very good chance of winning them.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. There’s just so many out there and yeah, those big nationwide ones that are usually higher dollar value, that’s what I’ve noticed is the nationwide ones seem to be higher and the more regional local ones are smaller dollar value. Is that what you’re seeing?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I am. And, you know, I tell students this and we can go through, I have a process that I take them through and really for law school, I tell them it’s not, I’m not a lawyer, but I know that there are certain processes, you know, that you just have to follow just being in the field. And so I tell them that it’s no different with this, but I tell them that seek out the opportunities that they have a greater chance of winning. So those local opportunities, I’ll say whatever their interest is in the field and then take it to the national level. Now, like you said, the national scholarships tend to be larger, but I tell my law school students like this. I said, whether you win one, $500, I’m sorry, whether you won a $2,000 scholarship or four $500 scholarships, they’re both the same thing. So I may have to apply a little bit more. But those numbers do add up.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
They can for sure. Yeah. Okay. So if a student is taking some gap years, so they’re not even in the application process, they know they’re taking several years off, let’s say five years and they may be one year out of college. So there’s nothing linking them to school. Is there a way to get a scholarship during that timeframe?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Absolutely. And so there are certain scholarships for, this’ll be for future law students. And these are, you know, your typical legal, or what is it, the legal societies the different specialties within law. They, of course, as you know, they want to support more lawyers coming to further the field. And so they actually have scholarships set up. Now, some of them and the requirements may differ, right? So some of them may say that you have to at least have a letter of acceptance. So of course that might not be a good fit for those that are already in the beginning, maybe of their gap years. But some of them simply say that you just must be able to demonstrate a strong interest. And so they can do that with as you know, volunteering, leadership experience and things like that.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That’s great. Yeah. I know a lot of people take gap years and I think that in some ways it’s almost like wasted time as far as scholarships goes. Cause it feels like you don’t qualify for anything until you actually get back to school. So that’s good to know. There’s some stuff out there. Well, okay. What about students who are in college and they’re looking towards law school, but they have a low GPA, let’s say like a 2.5. So they’re definitely nowhere near that merit kind of stuff. What do you recommend for them?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
So for them, it’s, I encourage them to focus on what they’re passionate about, focus on their interests and actually had pulled up. And I’m sure you know, about the LSAC.org website for those that are listening that stands for the law school admission council and they have a great resource of scholarships.
They have scholarships for those that are LGBTQ, I’m sorry. Yes, LGBTQ they also have scholarships for those that are of different ethnicities. So I encourage those students. If you know, you have a low GPA focused on the other things around about you. And that goes back to that branding conversation. And I kind of share an example like this, you think about apple and we all know the apple products, you know, the watches and the phones and everything, but it’s the reason why a lot of people support and purchase apple.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And, and this is important for students. So you guys to think of as well is we it’s called the KLT factor. I call it, we know those products. We’ve gotten to know them over time. We like them. They work they’re functional, whatever, perfect, whatever the reason was, we liked them. We were keeping them and then we trust them over time. We’ve seen them continue to work. And so we’re excited to buy the next product. So as you guys are going through this process of finding and applying for scholarships, you want to keep in mind that you want that scholarship committee to get to know you through your activities like you through your essays and how you presenting yourself and trust you enough to hand you over that money.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Wow. Okay. So when you talk about branding ourselves, how do you recommend we go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (08:51):
So this is a really good question. And I liked this question. So students, I like to start with, and I know it’s the infamous question. I know you help your students with this. It’s why do you want to be a lawyer? Or why do you, you know, why, why do you want to get into this field? Was there a moment in your life that was significant enough? And it just kind of sparked that interest. Maybe you had a positive experience with the legal field. Maybe you had a negative experience. Maybe you experienced it through someone else through a loved one or through a relative or a friend. And so I take them, you know, whatever that, the source of that passion is, then let’s find ways to cultivate that let’s start off locally. Now I know where, of course you have to
be mindful of social distancing and, and things like that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But maybe it’s reaching out to a local law firm and assisting, maybe it’s reaching out to a law school and saying, Hey, do you guys have any projects you’re working on? Can I, can I assist? Maybe you can’t refile files cause they’re confidential, but can I gather data for you guys? Maybe it’s reaching out. I love LinkedIn for this, but reaching out on LinkedIn and seeing if there are any events, any conferences coming up in your area, start connecting with the people in your field or future field and getting started. It could just be starting off with maybe a blog or YouTube. And you sharing your thoughts. If you’re really passionate about gun rights or social justice or the different topics within law, that interest you start talking about it start documenting you can blog or even get on YouTube as well.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
That’s great. Yeah. I think that when we come out of college, we’re not thinking of ourselves as a product necessarily as a brand and it’s hard to get started. It’s almost like you almost need a course for it or something, you know, some guidance
Speaker 1 (10:37):
For sure. So it sounds like that’s what you do, which is great because I think we also forget what our natural talents or characteristics are. I mean, we, I think have all been made hyper aware of, you know, our race or socioeconomic background. But beyond that, I think we forget what our little characteristics are, the things that make us, us. So that’s great to have some guidance on that now. Okay. You said there’s a DIY, so students can just buy like a packet to kind of start get that ball rolling. Is that what that is?
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yes. So what it is is I’ve kind of working on the theories. But it’s my source of scholarship guide, but it’s specifically for law school students. And they can actually go to my website, which is scholarshipsuccessschool.com and it looks long. But they can go there and get all those resources, but what I love about it and what I’m encouraging future law school students to do, and it’s kind of how the book is structured.
There’s a pre-phase. So, you know, pre-launch, there’s a during phase and I’m talking about expenses, right? Once you’ve gotten into law school, you got textbooks and the different fees, right? Of course, tuition. And then there’s a post, right? Because once you graduate, you still have to take the bar. It’s still, you may have to travel to do your next phase where you get into a position. And so I encourage students is to be mindful, not only up to wishing that’s one major expense, but what are all the expenses you’re incurring upfront? You know, when you’re applying to take the LSAT and paying for study materials or tutor, and fortunately I’m, and this is also on the lsac.org, is there are some organizations like the Barbry Law Preview they’re giving scholarships that will cover the pre-phase. So not just being stuck on one, on tuition, but being mindful that there are resources to cover the whole process.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Oh my gosh. That’s great. Are you aware of any scholarships for after they graduate from Law school?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
On the, you know what, yes I am and actually kind of ties it in date. They’re calling them fellowships and I was going to bring up, let’s see if I can. I know it’s on the LSAC because I took a look at it. Let’s see. Okay. This was it’s called the Harness and Dicky Diversity and Inclusion Fellowship. And so not only are they covering law school, but they’re covering mentoring once a student graduates kind of helping them get interviews, get into a place given funding for that. So, yes they use are under the title fellowship, but I would encourage law students to check that out too.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Okay. Wow. That’s so great. Because I think that we feel just so alone after we graduate with our debt, you know, we’re just out there in the world and they just dump us out there with, you know, $300,000 or whatever it is that we have and okay, good to know. Okay.
So on average, how long do you think it takes to, for student to get a scholarship to start seeing money come in from, you know, their efforts towards scholarships?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I can tell you on those. So when we were kind of first talking the local scholarships and the very specific I’ll say niche or the specialty within law, I mean, I’m seeing those as soon as, so, so kind of back to the application cycle, it depends per organization, but I’ve seen students as soon as two to three weeks after the cycle has closed that they’re getting emails and notices that they have won the scholarship. But with that being said, what I, especially for my law school students is, and I know they’re busy with all the other things. But keeping in mind a few things, one that it’s not it’s not quantity of time. It’s quality of time. So what I mean is it’s not that, oh my God, I only have 15 minutes today. What am I you know, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But it’s quality. What am I doing with that time? So am I going to take five of those minutes and do a quick search for local and then write them down the other 10 minutes? And then the next time I get a pocket of time, you know, I can do the next step or is it that I’ve already looked and I have a list and maybe I’m checking out the first one.
And so even if, even if in your list for those that are listening, it doesn’t matter if you only have 20 minutes or 30 minutes, but just the time that you have, and of course we know Jolene, you know, working with students, it falls into time management though. It doesn’t change even the last week. You have to manage your time. For sure. It’s keeping that in mind. And also this is that this is a numbers game. And so don’t just apply for one or two. But if you know that you, so let’s say you’ve worked with the amazing Jolene and you’ve gotten the package from the school, they’re offering you so much money. If you have a little gap left, keep applying until you’ve covered that gap.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Yeah. I think when I look back, I was so concerned about getting work experience in undergrad and just making sure I, you know, was bolstering my resume. And I just felt like I had no time to apply for scholarships. And of course I went home at five every day. So, you know, I had time, but it just felt like I had no time, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
It’s, you know, it’s a lot. And, and I think it’s just, and this is why it’s hard for me. Like I try not to make schedules or make a recommended schedule. Cause I know everyone is different. Like some law students have a family they’re taking care of someone and going to school, but kind of just going back to my previous point is whatever pockets of time you have, if you’ve got that 20 minutes for drinking coffee or something, drink coffee as you’re looking down the list. Right. But also kind of to what you just said, Jolene it’s like for the work experience, just find ways to incorporate that into your application. So you’re kind of killing two birds with one with one stone, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So, okay. So if you take over, if they’re not doing the DIY method, how much time from the student is involved, how does that kind of work?
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So the thing with the I say done for you, right? The DFY method is if students want that option is the searching part is gone. So that time for them is eliminated because I then take over, I do have several team members now that I’ve trained. So we maintain a private database and we do ask upfront. So I give the students like a question there, you know, your basic questions, where did you go to school for undergrad? What, what area of law do you want to go into? What’s your ethnicity? Any hobbies you’re a part of, but the leadership work experience. So once we create that profile, we then literally take that and we take it to our database and we just start pulling. So I guess it would take students maybe 10 minutes upfront to fill out the questionnaire.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
And then within 48 hours, we are having a strategy meeting and giving them the list and then going over, okay, you’ve got this work experience, let’s leverage it this way to increase your chances of winning. And we go down the list. And then once they have that, we then also provide a continuous followup. So we have actually like a monthly program now. So they get that custom list and then they then have access to myself and my team the whole month. So if they come across a question, they can’t answer on an application or they want feedback for an essay. Then they have access to us all day 24/7. And so we’ve provided support on the backend.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Wow. That’s great. Now I know you mentioned in DIY method that there was a book, is that separate from, is that the same book or a different book than the one that I saw on your website?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
You may have seen the original one, but the law school. So it says The Ultimate Guide for Finding and Winning More Money for College now than it has a law school right underneath. So that one is specific to law school and that’s kind of where I break down, make sure that they’re covering all the costs. And also I share some organizations to start connecting with in terms of finding money too.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
That’s great. Yeah. I know that organizations are a great place to go. You know, the more you join networking organizations, whether it’s your local chamber of commerce or whatever, there’s always money to be found in those organizations. And a lot of times, because they are networking groups. If you put the shout out, Hey, I’m looking for scholarships, they might be able to tell you, oh yeah, well, over here, we’re doing a separate scholarship thing, you know, not related to this group, but it’s in this other group I belong to or whatever it is. And so yeah, those networking groups can be really, really helpful in multiple ways.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Absolutely. And I want to throw this in there for those that are listening and will watch is that this is an integrated process. So you need to work with Jolene upfront because you do need that package from the schools. And that does depend on your LSAT score and your GPA, if it’s, you know, if it’s decent, use those things to leverage to get more funding. And then once you have that package and you see the gap, then you can come on the back end with scholarships and then you can kind of fill that gap in that way.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. I think that we look at the big numbers and we just don’t see, you know, we don’t see a gap. Right. We just see big numbers. And so we don’t even think we can fill it. So I think breaking it down like that, like, okay, here’s the total bill. And then here’s how much I’m getting from the school. And here’s how much I’m saving in other ways, whatever it is. And then, okay, so this is what I have left to do with scholarships. I think that just makes it more manageable.
Now is there law schools or every single school, so different, some have like a C plus curve, some have a B curve. So, you know, a 2.5 at one school might be the equivalent of a 3.5 at another school. And it’s just, they’re really in the same place they might be in the top, let’s say third of their class, but with totally different GPA’s, which makes scholarships, I think a little difficult. Is there a way that you see around that to explain that?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
I do. I tell students to be honest because, you know, I believe in being authentic when there’s no need to fabricate you know, and, and explain, but also I encourage students to kind of turn it around on the positive. So, you know, maybe they had some growing up to do. Maybe they realized, I don’t know, they had to make a change and then kind of tie it to, you know, as a future lawyer, I’m going to have to make adjustments. I’m going to maybe have some disappointments, but I’m going to navigate just like I’m doing now. So I always try to spin it to the positive and don’t, you don’t want to be the victim because what I didn’t share up front is I actually still judge scholarship competitions. I’ve been doing that the last few years and you can spot those right away. The ones that, oh, I broke my leg. And so I got a 1.0 last semester and, but I need the money. So just give it to me. And it’s like, okay, but I need you to spin it for me. So how does that information tied together for me? So I can maybe try to justify awarding you with the money.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah. It’s really Hard because we all do have different circumstances, whether it’s our school that has a low GPA for us or whether yes, we’ve had an accident. I know my GPA in undergrad went down the one quarter that I was in a car accident. So it’s, you know, it’s rough, you know, you never know where you’re going to end up. You never know what your situation is, but yeah, I think sharing it is important, letting them know, okay, we are a bigger person, a whole person. We have a plan.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Exactly, exactly. And it ties back to their purpose too.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
How long do people typically work with you for like, what’s the general timeframe?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
So of course DIY, those are kinda like the go getters. They kind of already have their plan, they got their numbers, they know what they need to do. And so they kind of, you know, they purchased them at reach out one time and they kind of move on for those that work with me. It’s usually around three to four months. Yeah, that’s typical about three to four months.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
And I know you have a text program. What’s that all about?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
So what I started doing is I realized, well, you know, we’re all busy, but you know, when the texts come through, we’re so quick to check our phones. And so I said, well, let me put together a list of, of law scholarships. And so and I’ll share that information Jolene with you. But my number is it’s 8 3 3 5 2 5 1 0 9 3. And they just text law there and it’s going to send them a link. And as we were saying is I have one list, but we are currently updating it. So it will have a fresh list out very soon for the rest of the year. So if you’re looking for scholarships, it’s kind of a list that gets you started, I believe right now it’s about 50, $60,000 worth of scholarships on there a little bit more. So just to kind of give you some encouragement to get going.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
That’s brilliant text programs are great because that is definitely something we’re always carrying around with us. And it’s something I think we can better see and remember than our email inbox. So that’s great. And I’ll be sure to link up your number and everything in the show notes. So it’s easy access for everybody.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
So, any other overall advice that maybe I didn’t touch on that pre-law students, whether it’s, while they’re in college or gap years or again, or law students should know about?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Yes. One thing I do want to touch on is I, and I’ve seen this with my other professional students too, but I think for a lot of law school students, they just don’t know where to start and they need the support to get started the right way. And so if you’re listening or watching and if your first step is, oh, just jump into looking, I can tell you that you’re going to be frustrated because it’s almost like you’re looking for something, but you don’t know what you’re looking for. And you won’t know if you found it right in the face, but because you don’t know, you don’t have a roadmap, you don’t know how to get to that destination. So what I suggest is we have to start with you. And so that profile, now I can do it for you or, you know, you can, I can walk you through it on the DFY side, or you can do this yourself in the book.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I literally walk you through step-by-step, but you know, just simple things, your gender ethnicity, what, what was your undergraduate college? What is your academics look like? Do you volunteer leadership experience? Have you been documenting, like, have you written essays maybe for your, I don’t know, maybe it’s your college, maybe your prelaunch group has a newspaper. You write for them, you know, are maybe you make a list of people. Are you connecting with like, do you know your pre-law advisor? You know, all those different things, it’s make a list of that. And then when you’re ready to start searching, which will be the next step is only focused on things about you. That’s how you make sure that the scholarships fit you is because you’re only looking like with this blind or with this filter right. Of scholarships that are either they describe you or things that you do.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
So that would be the first thing. And I will say too, on the other end, I get a lot of law school students that are frustrated, right. Maybe they started looking and it kind of stopped. And then they kind of got back to it. And I can tell you that we got to work on that too, because the income in-between your inconsistencies, are scholarship deadlines. And so that off week that you’re not applying somebody else is, and they’re sending in their application. So consistency is the key.
And then I’ll end with this is that if you are, so if you started to search and maybe you’re not seeing the results right now, we’ve got to figure out what is the hole that we have to plug. So do you need to get more volunteer experience? Do you need to connect locally?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Do whatever it is, do you need to meet with your pre-law advisor? Because they may have some resources. They actually have their own professional association just for pre-law advisors. So they’re privy to some of this information, tap into them you know, whatever it is. Have you, have you given yourself enough time to work on your scholarship essays, do you know how to recycle them? You shouldn’t be writing a new essay for every application. It should be recycling. Trying to figure out what is the root cause and then plugging the hole. So those would be my top three pieces of it.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Wow. Those are fantastic. Yeah. I feel like it’s actually doable and you’re right. There’s scholarships. I’ve seen deadlines every single month. So it’s, you know, you take that break and it’s like, you’re missing some, so yes. Slow and steady people. Okay. That sounds great. All right, Ashley, where can they find you if they want to start following you on social media or just, yeah. Again, your website, all that.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Absolutely. So I try to be everywhere. I try to be we’ll start with the website. So you can go to www.scholarshipsuccessschool.com got tons of resources over there. If you are an IG person, Instagram, you can check me out at prepfourcollege prep. I’m also over on LinkedIn. That’s where a lot of our professionals hang out a future professionals. So literally you can look up Ashley Hill, my pop up right there. Also I’m on Facebook prep4college. And then lastly, I’m on Twitter, which is prepforcollege.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Gotcha. Okay. And I’ll link that all up. But I think, yeah, the key here is get on that text program. Let’s get some scholarships rolling in. Absolutely. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today, Ashley. I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
You’re welcome. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been fun.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Before we get into my top takeaways. A quick word from our sponsor. Juno, if you have to take out student loans, check in with Juno first, Juno, can often offer law students one to 2% lower interest rates than the federal government and with no origination fees and oftentimes cash back as well. Visit advisor.legallearningcenter.com/Juno. For more information.
My top takeaways from this chat with Ashley, number one, create your own personal brand. When you’re looking at scholarships, number two, you can increase your chances of success by looking locally. Number three, don’t just jump into applying to scholarships, create a profile first, a plan of attack. Number four, consistency is key. There are scholarships every month.
That’s it. For this episode, all the tips and links will be in the show notes. A full transcript is available legallearningcenter.com/Ashley. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave a review that really helps the show to reach more people. And it helps those people.
